I think that it was probably a bad idea of steves to think of this book in the first place. To make a website you must have some copyright knowledge, did he actually think it would be published.

I back Jo on this one and think JohnK has some interesting information.

Ok, johnk, thank you, I didn’t pay attention to that, and I agree with the 99,9% probability. Well, let’s wait and see.

Johnk: What is ‘original content’? Plenty of stuff on the Lexicon is definitely original in that the timelines and explanations of all the different spell, etc., are all written by SVA – original wording of explanations, for example. Also, the dates/timelines and descriptions were definitely not put together by JKR – in fact, when you look at the various timelines, there’s plenty of contradictions that come out. I’d say that if you analyze a book enough to derive that many contradictions/gaping holes, you are not copying anymore – you are doing analysis as well. This analysis doesn’t even include the material on how, for example, full moons/leap years fit into the timelines, or how the pronunciation of various words is different based on different people’s interpretations. All that does not at all come from JKR’s books.

I’ve read many books of analysis (sadly) as a college student writing term papers, in which there definitely was less than 50% original thought – there were more rearrangements of events, and descriptions of characters, and so on.

I’d like to list some books that look rather like SVA’s as well, though I must confess I never bothered to read any – I like JKR’s style of writing, and am not very into encyclopedia’s myself.

The Unofficial Harry Potter Encyclopedia: Harry Potter A – Z by Kristina Benson (Paperback – Jul 7, 2007)

The Complete Idiot’s Guide to the World of Harry Potter (Complete Idiot’s Guide to) by Tere Stouffer (Paperback – Oct 2, 2007)

Fact, Fiction, and Folklore in Harry Potter’s World: An Unofficial Guide by George W. Beahm, Tim Kirk, and Britton McDaniel (Paperback – Jun 30, 2005)

The Sorcerer’s Companion: A Guide to the Magical World of Harry Potter by Allan Zola Kronzek and Elizabeth Kronzek (Paperback – Aug 10, 2004

The Pottersaurus: 1,500 Words Harry Potter Readers Need to Know by Eric D. Randall (Paperback – April 26, 2007)

The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter: A Treasury of Myths, Legends, and Fascinating Facts by David Colbert (Paperback - May 4, 2004)

The Definitive Harry Potter Guide Book Series: The Prisoner of Azkaban by Marie Lesoway (Spiral-bound – 2001)

An Unofficial Muggle’s Guide to the Wizarding World: Exploring the Harry Potter Universe by Fionna Boyle (Paperback – Sep 1, 2004)

A Muggles Guide To The Wizarding World: Exploring The Harry Potter Universe: Fionna Boyle Paperback, 2004

Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of Harry Potter: Astre Mithrandir, Galadriel Waters Paperback, 2003

Mapping the World of Harry Potter: Mercedes Lackey Paperback, 2006

The Harry Potter Companion: Acascias Riphouse Paperback, 2004

Hi RJ. A simple way of thinking of original content is that it cannot be a regurgitation of someone else’s copyrighted material. If the timeline he made was a simple reformatting of JKR’s events, it gets tricky. In that event his format can be considered his intellectual property but with JKR’s copyrighted material. Confusing I know.

The issue with college texts and papers is two fold. In college texts, there are multiple factors. First when it comes to theorums and postulates, the commercial use is usually trademarked and copyrighted, but for educational purposes the IP is shared if it is not new. Second in college texts, credit is given at all times to the original pieces with many various forms of footnotes and awknowledgements. Also, most of the time those writing are other professors that hoping to published by as many papers and text books as possible so they can achieve tenure. Third, in college text books it is usually a discussion of different issues and ideas. Add these three issues together and it makes non-fiction college text books something that if anything, proves JKR’s case, not against it. Follow these differences: 1) JKR doesn’t want to share her mayerials with Mr Vander Ark. Those cited in texts are trying and needing to be published by as many people as possible. 2) Authorization and citation is almost always given in text books. JKR won’t give hers.

When it comes to college students papers, this doesn’t falls into copyright laws unless they become published for commercial gain. What you are talking about is plagarism. Much of this issue with Mr Vander Ark and JRK surrounds when he took a free public forum (his website) and then went for commercial gain with unauthorization use of others copyrighted material and intellictual property.

Out of all the Harry Potter Fan websites, I admit never being particularily fond of the Lexicon. I feel Belinda to be an excrutiatingly “know it all” and annoyingly self righteous being, and figure the people who created & maintain this fan site as so called “editors” have no other interest in life. I am therefore NOT surprised to learn that these people think it is THEIR legal right under the First Amendents rights to copyright and publish the written work of another for THEM to capitalize for profit. I hope, firstly, this doesn’t happen, & finally to “You” Lexicon people, if you take such great pride in knowing how to catalogue information, why not create & publish your own story, so I can then create a fan site about it, catalogue it & sell it to make money too.

One poster has cited the excellent encyclopedia by Laurie Frost on Philip Pullman’s series, HIS DARK MATERIALS, and talks about it in reference to Steve Vander Ark’s encyclopedia.

I have the Frost book and there are some key considerations here: 1. Ms. Frost contacted Pullman when she originally decided to write the book. Pullman gave him her consent and, in fact, wrote a brief introduction. Steve Vander Ark wrote letters to Rowling, and after he was rebuffed, decided to go ahead anyway. Subsequently, the publisher decided to proceed, despite several follow-up e-mails from the Rowling camp. In other words, RDR Books is willing to test this case’s validity. In the interim, it’s enjoying (as all controversial matters do) unprecedented publicity, as all the major newspapers, wire services, and print/electronic/web publications are reporting it.

Here’s what all this boils down to: IF RDR Books wins the case, which is unlikely, then it will stand to benefit tremendously in terms of book sales of this title. If it loses the case, it may appeal, but will ultimately lose, in which case the losses could be substantial.

This is really not, as RDR Books would have us believe, a matter of the David v. Goliath, the little guy against the big guy. Vander Ark is free to write any number of books about Rowling’s universe, but he is not free to recast his encyclopedia and simply publish it in print form without recourse. Of course, Vander Ark (as is obvious) has lost Rowling’s respect and a substantial number of fans in the Harry Potter community. This issue has clearly divided Harry Potter fandom, and the legal issues will clearly define in the future for all prospective writers/editors/compilers what’s legally permisslble and what is not in terms of books about Rowling.

2. Had Frost’s book been unauthorized and Mr. Pullman decided, regardless of whether or not he was going to publish his own encyclopedia, that he was unhappy with it, he probably could prevent its publication because it draws substantially from HIS DARK MATERIALS, though it does add some original content.

3. In all the forums (here, at Mugglenet.com and blogs), there’s been numerous questions about the legality of the other books published by Rowling. There have been several dozen, and more are scheduled. Keep in mind that in the cases the books are out of print, THERE IS A REASON FOR IT. In other words, the legal firm that represents Warner Bros. has systematically identified these books when they’ve appeared on the radar and routinely contacted the publisher/author in cases where they feel infringement has occurred. If the books are STILL in print and being published, it is logical to infer that Warner Bros. did not feel there was sufficient infringement to justify further action.

There have been numerous books of recent vintage (notably the Mugglenet.com book), but the ongoing publication of the older books begs the question: If these violated copyright, don’t you think that Warner Bros. WOULD have contacted them? I don’t see this as an arbitrary concern on their part; I see it as a deliberate one. In other words, the Warner Bros. legal game-plan seems to be that (a) they continually monitor online what’s being published in the Harry Potter book world, (b) they contact publishers/authors as soon as they identify books that they feel violate copyright; (c) changes are either made to the book for a revised, legally acceptable edition or the book is put out of print if the material therein is so substantial that the book CANNOT be rewritten. (This raises another point: If a book is so significantly drawn from Rowling’s texts that it cannot be edited or rewritten to the point where the book itself has enough content to justify publication, then it’s clear there’s too much of Rowling’s work in the book and not enough of the author’s.)

There’s been a lot already written about whether Jo is right or wrong in going after Steve Vander Ark on this book, and that’s going to be a matter for the courts to finally determine. But the fact remains that she does allow what she perceives to be legitimate books to be published. She also allows fan fiction to be published online. Overall, she’s been pretty tolerant and generous.

Anne Rice does NOT allow fans to publish fan fiction on her website. John Grisham (a former lawyer) will sue any writer who does a companion-style book. So this issue isn’t exclusively about Rowling. It’s about what another writer can legally publish, and what he cannot.

RDR Books and Steve Vander Ark will have their day in court. Unless there’s a settlement, which would likely occur at the last minute, this matter will go to court and RDR Books will have published the book, so there will be no question as to what its contents are. If Warner Bros. prevails and gets an injunction, the book’s publication is stopped and copies can be recalled from bookstores and distributors. And RDR won’t be able to print more copies.

Frankly, this is a huge, expensive risk for RDR Books, but they apparently feel they are in the right and they DO have every right to defend themselves in court, and not fight it out in the non-legal court of public opinion.

From what RDR Books tells us, they expect to publish on Nov. 28. Which means they must go to press in the next week or two, if they want copies to ship on that date to their accounts. And then we will all see what the fuss is about, and the lawyers on their respective sides will do battle, and we’ll have to wait and see who prevails—and who doesn’t.

No matter how this turns out, this has had a major impact on how Potter fans view Steve Vander Ark and Jo Rowling. Both have been (in the eyes of the fans) saint and sinner, and fandom is choosing sides.

At this point there’s little Steve and Jo would agree upon, but they would agree on this point: They’d prefer the bickering in fandom to stop and have the fans concentrate on the positive things going on in the Potter universe, of which there is plenty to celebrate.

Rowling’s enduring popularity insures that her books will be read a century from now and that writers will continue to examine, explore, and write what they think of the Harry Potter universe. We may not like all of these books, but if the writers have a LEGAL write to write them, they should. And we, as customers, can either buy those books, or not. Nobody is forcing us to spend our money on the books.

It’s time for all of us to move on. Life’s too short, don’t you think?

PS: I’m not a lawyer. Think Snoopy from PEANUTS with a briefcase.

correction: I couldn’t edit the piece after I posted it, but re: Pullman, I clearly meant: Philip Pullman gave his consent to Laurie Frost to write/edit/compile an encyclopedia based on Pullman’s three-book series, HIS DARK MATERIALS.

While I love Steve VanderArk’s work on the Lexicon, I do not understand his recent actions. To first threaten WB with a lawsuit is absolutely ridiculous. Second, to expect to sell the Lexicon when it is already free online doesn’t make sense. This just doesn’t seem like the Steve I’ve listened to so many times on CC.

I think people are being too harsh on Steve. This is a lawsuit- its going to get ugly, but before all of this happened we were friends and ” allies ” of both JKR and the “fans” ( in this case, steve). i don’t think this is anyones fault- just a bit of a misunderstanding. Thats my opinion, at least.

I just hope this all gets cleared up quickly- i never thought that it would come down to this, to be honest with you all. the author v.s. the fans? the fans v.s. the author? its befuddling and makes me kidn of sad. it seems the fandom is not as complete a unit as it seemed.

Just wanted to add a comment regarding the lawsuit against an Indian religious festival. Another poster said that Warner Brothers, had filed the lawsuit, not JK Rowling. This dispite numerous press articles stated that JKR & her publisher had filed the suit. When I asked the poster for their source, they said that they had personally emailed JKR’s literary agency, Christopher Little. They recommended that I do the same to prove that they were telling the truth. I wrote an email to Christopher Little Literary Agency on Fri, Oct. 26, and have not received any response at all. So either the other poster was making things up, or I’m just not as important as they are.

To JohnK – what is your opinion on the Indian lawsuit? It seems to me that that’s much less justified than the suit against SVA.

@ em: Just wanted to add a comment regarding the lawsuit against an Indian religious festival. Another poster said that Warner Brothers, had filed the lawsuit, not JK Rowling.

Follow the link to the Reuters report of this story. Reuters indicates that attorneys on JK/WBs behalf filed the lawsuit.

http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-29955020071011?pageNumber=2&sp=true

The festival constructed life-size models of Harry and Co., Hogwarts Castle, and a mock Hogwarts Express, at great cost, in order to draw more people to their pandal.

Forget for a moment that this was a religious festival. Instead, think of it as the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade. They’ve decorated or entered specifically themed floats/balloons/falloons/balloonicles. Whatever the theme may be, if it’s copyrighted material, permission must first be acquired before it can be used in the parade. The parade is an American holiday or ‘holy day’ festival, yet they must still comply with US and International copyright laws.

The pandal was for the religious festival known as Durga Puja. They claim they had no intent to make money off it. However, they did intend to draw large crowds of people to their pandal by using the popularity of Harry Potter, and while on their way to the pandal this ‘foot traffic’ would stop and purchase items from various grocers/market-places/stalls. So, like the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade, in a way, they were intending to attract tourist dollars as well as celebrate their festival.

As for the amount of dollars requested by JK/WB, 1.) In order for the court case to be heard a compensatory request must be part of the suit, and 2.) those who built the replicas forked over 1.2 million rupees [$30,000] to construct it. Claiming they didn’t have 2 million rupees [$50,000] to pay in damages for copyright infringement is not entirely truthful.

Oh dear. This has not been dealt with in a mature way by the publisher by the sounds of it. I think Jo has every right here – it’s all her creation, her hard work. Yes, understood, Steve has put many hours into this and has done a great job but the material is not his to sell.

The thing is, JKR lost. They spent God knows how much money writing a 400+ page lawsuit & suing this community group, only to lose in the end. The group could finish the paper mache castle, & tear it down after the festival ended 5 days later. Is this REALLY the best use of JKR’s time & money? I’d understand more if they were going after pirated DVDs/books, which are very common in India. But this? This is just a waste of everyone’s time & spoiling people’s fun.

You’ve made the analogy to Macy’s. IMO, it seems more similar to Mardi Gras. It’s a huge party, & different community groups contruct models for display during the festival. Hypothetically, the Mardi Gras floats attract more visitors who might spend money. Hypothetically, prom themes attract visitors & money for the school too. I don’t get why JKR bothered with this one – it’s bad publicity, bad use of money & time, and a bad result for JKR in the end anyway.

You are certainly entitled to believe as you wish, but the ‘no harm, no foul’ argument has never been a convincing one to me.

So, why did JK/Penguin India publishers/WB file suit?

“Warner is thought to have been informed by its legal advisers in India that this was a commercially organized event which was selling 40 to 50 stalls at a cost of $600 each and banner advertisements at a cost of $250 each to local and internationally recognized companies.”

Ergo, WB believed it to be a highly commercial venture and in a statement, they commented on it:

“Sadly, the organizers of this large-scale commercially sponsored event did not approach us for permission to go ahead,” the company said in a statement issued in London.

“This event falls outside the guidelines set up by Warner Bros., J.K. Rowling and her publishers to help charitable and not-for-profit organizations to run small-scale themed events that protect fans and allow everyone to enjoy Harry Potter books, films and events in the spirit in which they were created,” it added. _{~~ Of course the truth is that to sell the stalls/banners pays for the puja, so money DOES exchange hands, just not necessarily for profit. Further:}

“Allowing the organisers to use Potter replicas till October 26 – the last day of the festivities – Justice Kaul ordered the “defendants (organizers) in future to model their pandals on any of the subject matter only with the leave and liberty of the plaintiff (Rowling)”.

Refusing to impose compensation, the court termed the organiser’s use of Potter characters in Durga festival as a “non-profit making enterprise” without any aim to derive financial mileage. “

And another comment from WB:

”...The injunction was made in our favor, but the court decided that there was insufficient time for the Harry Potter elements of this particular event to be amended or withdrawn. We are pleased that the court has recognized that such events cannot proceed without Warner Bros’ permission which should have been obtained.”

About Justice Sanjay Kishan Kaul’s rejection of Warner Brother’s claim for compensation – on the grounds that a claim could not be made on a public purpose such as a puja – the statement issued in London said: “Court requirements in India meant that minimum damages initially had to be claimed, but we expressly waived these in the court hearing.” ~~ The injunction ruling ultimately was in favor of JK/WB.

JK/WB were entirely within their legal rights to pursue what they considered a commercial venture that infringed their copyrights. If the Delhi High Court hadn’t seen it as infringement on some level they wouldn’t have made the puja organizers swear on oath_{~in writing}~that they wouldn’t use the copyrighted HP material in future without the owner’s express consent.

” The court’s decision came after the puja organizer gave a written undertaking before the Bench that they would in future use the subjects and symbols of her stories only after receiving her prior explicit permission. “

Finally, lest I be accused of plagiarism or copyright myself, you may read the entire articles for yourself:

http://spicyipindia.blogspot.com/2007/10/potter-troubles-over-for-puja.html AND http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14542794

You’re quoting directly from JKR/Bloomsbury/WB’s own complaint and press releases. Why? According to unbiased newspaper articles, JKR did indeed lose the lawsuit.

“Indian Potter fans cheer Hogwarts ruling”

Oct 13, 2007

KOLKATA, India (AFP) — Indian fans of Harry Potter books welcomed Saturday a court verdict that gave the go-ahead to organisers of a religious event to build a life-size replica of the fictional Hogwarts Castle.

The Delhi High Court threw out on Friday a claim by author J.K. Rowling that the giant structure constructed in the city of Kolkata infringed copyright.”

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvjlDttN9USYjz3X-aODSyuSe0ZQ

“India Court Rejects J.K. Rowling Claim For Copyright Infringement” – http://www.leakylounge.com/betaforum2.3.1/index.php?s=6e75a25f44e05957b3a7fd3f1fd41b1d&showtopic=55900&pid=1446865&st=0&#entry1446865

You said: "Ergo, WB believed it to be a highly commercial venture and in a statement, they commented on it." They believed that, and they were wrong. The judge ruled against them, and called the festival a non-profit enterprise: "Refusing to impose compensation, the court termed the organiser’s use of Potter characters in Durga festival as a “non-profit making enterprise” without any aim to derive financial mileage." That's why JKR lost - and she did lose. The festival organizers were allowed to use the Hogwarts castle without paying JKR more money, & without having to tear down their work.

Technically, JKR probably has the right to try to sue anyone who makes a Hogwarts-looking castle – I’m just saying that it looks bullying & mean for them to do this, and they didn’t even get what they wanted in the end. The judge dismissed JKR’s complaint against the community group. And I kind of like that this small group faced down some of the biggest corporations in the world in court – and won. Go Durga Puja!