Fanfic and False Press – The Real Story on James Potter and the Hall of Elders’ Crossing

113

Nov 21, 2007

Posted by Melissa Anelli
Uncategorized

Many of you have written to us regarding the Web site for James Potter and the Hall of Elder’s Crossing, which looks remarkably similar to an official Harry Potter Web site that might be put out by Warner Bros. As earlier reported, the site heralds a fanfic written by George Lippert, a 37-year-old Web designer from St. Louis, MO, who wrote the book-length fic for his wife and children and plans to release a chapter a day in December.

Some papers, including The Scotsman, have reported that J.K. Rowling’s representatives are threatening legal action against Mr. Lippert. This is entirely false, and some papers have retracted that information publicly.

Mr. Lippert contacted TLC to tell us the following (which has been backed up by the Christopher Little Agency, the entity that would pursue a legal action if there was one to be had):

Information regarding any ‘legal action’ on the part of Ms. Rowling is quite false. I sought contact with Ms. Rowling via her agent, offering her an advance copy of the story for her perusal. This was accepted (at least by her agent), and presumably they are currently perusing JPHEC at this moment to assure they have no problems with the content. Additionally, they have assured me that as long as I have no intentions of publishing the book for profit, that it is appropriate for children [no pornography], and that I do not intend to attribute it to Ms. Rowling, they have no problem whatsoever with my free release of the book.

Again, the Christopher Little Agency also told TLC of the phone call, its contents, the requested provisions regarding the work, and the request to share the fanfiction with J.K. Rowling (though whether it has indeed gone to J.K. Rowling herself is unconfirmed).

Mr. Lippert has said that he’s quite surprised by all the attention to his work and didn’t intend for the story to become so egregious.

Thanks everyone!





88 Responses to Fanfic and False Press – The Real Story on James Potter and the Hall of Elders’ Crossing

Avatar Image says:

It looks exciting, the web page looks awesome!

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See… that’s how it’s supposed to work. This guy obviously didnt want to squash any toes, so he was proactive and sent a copy ahead. Well done. I dont usually read fanfic that’s outside of the cannon era, but I might have to read this, just to see what the hubub is all about.

Avatar Image says:

There wasn’t nothing illegal with the fanfic, so it is a good news :) Mr. Lippert’s fanfic will be a success, at least its release. The only difference with other fanfictions is that this one has an amazing campaign of publicity.

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Right . . . he’s “surprised” . . . that’s why he created a website that looks exactly like the official HP sites. Odds are he’s some writing hack who figured he’d create the site, pretend he’s sending it to JK’s reps “for approval”, and gets lots of media & publishing-community attention. Once he hands off his sad little attempt at fan-fic for free, he’ll start pushing them to publish his “real” book that no publishing company would touch so far. Wouldn’t be surprised if he eventually claims he was stifled/gagged/harrassed by JK’s reps but was “too respectful” to say anything.

What a loser.

Avatar Image says:

I don’t think that’s a very nice thing to say Amanda. He seems to be very honest and not trying to be a jerk to Jo and I think it’s great he’s so dedicated a fan to write his family such a large fan-fic (and release it to all of us). Plus, let me tell you creating that intro and website isn’t easy, he worked hard on that.

Avatar Image says:

Well I’m going to read it! I do care who writes it, if its anything like harry potter, I’m good.

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Yay! I’m excited about this! I wanted to read it and it’s great that it’s gotten the “seal of approval.” Dec. 1st here I come! I just hope that it’s all it’s hyped up to be, of course the nice part is that he can create a lot more of his own characters and not have to go along with characters that have already had everything written out for them. I wonder if he’ll do more than one book is this one is a success…

Avatar Image says:

I can’t wait for this fanfic! I don’t read fanfics at all usually, but the buildup around this one has been so big that I have to check it out!

Avatar Image says:

I think thats a pretty horrible thing to say Amanda.

You don’t know the guy. Fair play to him if he did, as he says, contact the reps and go about it the right way-unlike some other people recently.

Big deal if its a similar website-the potter fonts etc etc can be downloaded anywhere so I dont think using a similar style of writing is a big deal. Also as a web designer he obviously has a talent for website building-which he has superbly demonstrated with this site.

I for one cant wait to read his fanfic-I hope Jo has had a peak at it too and likes it! One thing I have wanted for a long time was a James Potter story! Cant wait!

Avatar Image says:

im really looking forward to reading this i read fanfics all the time but i havent read one that has its own website before so i think it will be exciting =]

Avatar Image says:

Wait, massive numbers of newspapers got something wrong and Jo was entirely trustworthy, credible, and right?

Seems like a lesson in whom one should trust, to me.

Avatar Image says:

Aww glad everything was cleared up, and I am actually looking forward to reading this fanfic :)

Avatar Image says:

The intro and the website look fab, he’s a clever guy, no doubt he’ll get lots of web work from all this publicity! I just hope the fanfic’s up to the same standard- for his sake!

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I’m relieved to hear that Christopher Little isn’t pursuing any lawsuit against this man. I was very disturbed at the idea when it was reported that such was the case, as J.K. Rowling and her associates have previously been very receptive and positive about the existence and legality of fan-fiction in the Harry Potter fandom.

I must commend all parties involved for being so cooperative with each other.

Avatar Image says:

amanda, that was by far the rudest thing i’ve ever read on these online comments, and i think there have been some pretty damn rude people before you, so that’s saying something. nice one, calling someone a ‘loser’ when you have no idea, really, of whom you’re speaking. well done. you’ve shown that you’re really someone to respect…

Avatar Image says:

Any word from WB? I thought that any problem would be from them, not JKR.

Wonder if someday we’ll get collections of the best HP fan-fic published? with JKR as judge (joined by Melissa and Emerson, naturally!)

Avatar Image says:

I never read fanfic, but I might just read this one if, when it comes out, people think it is good as all the hype has led me to believe.

And kudos to the guy who wrote it by going about things the right way, getting it approved by JKR’s people first. Just goes to show that you really can’t trust the media to get their fact straight before publishing.

Avatar Image says:

Did you see he released the cover! OMG!! I can’t wait, I’ll definately read this!

Avatar Image says:

Amanda – what a loser YOU are. Why are you bitching about this? That was so rude.

I can’t wait for this.

Avatar Image says:

I love the cover for his book!!!!

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there are thousands and thousands of excillent fanfictions out there, with thousands of possitive reviews and even ones that did grab publishers attension for fresh talent. why not check one of them out. they had to ligitamitly work through reputation and word of mouth to get their publicity, rather than one done by a publicity stunt. amanda’s comments were rude but i can understand why some would be irked by this.

Avatar Image says:

What I really want to read is – Christopher Little and the Scripts of Enchantment. Followed by its sequel Christopher Little and the Quest of Rowlings Treasure.

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siyrean, I agree…folks, we finally have some nice news, can we not slide into name calling and ruin the moment?

Avatar Image says:

VVV interesting debate guys. I don’t read fanfic, although I did write one which got a special mention (in the contest in May) . I really enjoyed working with Jo’s world and trying to write within it. I fond it really hard to do well but it was ALOT of fun to immerse myself in it in my spare time.

So I say good luck to this guy, although why he had to publish it online, if it is just for his family…..?

Off topic, but I just wanted to let you know that the catalogue for Beedle the Bard arrived chez moi (UK) today!!! Sadly sadly sady, no new canon that i can make out. Lots of nicely taken angled images of some of her hand drawings, etc but I am disappointed. It’s alittle lerger than the Comic relief books and printed on heavier paper, with lots of Sotheby’s blurb inside regarding the legalities of the auction and bidding process. A lovely photo of Jo sitting in a bay window, holding the book to be auctioned.

Avatar Image says:

Please, let us not “gang up” on poor Amanda….she’s obviously an unhappy person, and would like everyone else to be the same…poor thing! (smiling, solicitously) As for all this…I am thrilled and look forward to reading Mr Little’s creation. What a great Christmas Gift, to his family…and HP Fandom. Thank you, sir. And thank you for showing “how it should be done”. Bravo!

Avatar Image says:

Confederate Lady, have you ever kept track of how much time you and I and some others spend asking people to be courteous and polite with one another?

Avatar Image says:

Really want to read this! Looks good! So glad it didnt get taken away, like Lexicon. Lexicon looked good, but the publishers were stupid not sending a copy at least.

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I think it’s hilarious he had to ‘submit for approval’ – what fanfic has to be approved now?

Is that only because it looked ‘too real’, and therefore was dangerously close to be confused as an actual HP title?

And what if it wasn’t approved? Would he have been forced to take down the site and NOT get his fanfic out there?

Why does JKR, her reps, WB or anyone else have to ‘approve’ a fanfic?

Avatar Image says:

Laughing Man : I agree that the site shouldn’t be taken down, but I think it’s very reasonable to ask for Jo’s permission…

Why???

MAYBE BECASUSE SHE OWNS ALL THE RIGHTS!!! SHE WROTE IT!! I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE TAKEN DOWN!! I'M HAPPY IT WON'T BUT I THINK IT WAS CURTEOUS OF HIM TO ASK!! BRAVO!!
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yay this is exciting.. i cant wait,.. personally i knew they wouldnt mind as long as it isnt for profit because ppl could mistake it for jkr herself because the characters and the settings is entirely all her and it would be plagarism basically and of the reality of the website (( which is awesome!! :D :D )) and the content … i wonder if hes gunna have albus severus potter there too or just start when james first year .. i hope not .. too bad we couldnt have lilly too .. rose and hugo are gunna be soo cute and i could see a minature hermione with a combo of red and brown hair heheh .. who knos they might do a movie but a low budget one

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The Laughing Man: He doesn’t have to – he offered too :)

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This is just too funny. Jo Rowling now seems to be in damage limitation meltdown. “I’m not suing this person, honest!”

I choked on my coffee at the hilarity of it all.Can’t wait to read the fanfic.

Avatar Image says:

For those that seem to have missed the sometimes painful discussions of late about copyright, trademarks, and intellectual property rights, please take the time to look at the last (oh, let’s say..) two weeks of announcements, and then read the comments. You’ll find detailed explanations about the legal issues involved, including from several attorneys who are not connected with the case.

I’m sure you’ll find the effort worthwhile, and that most of your questions will be answered. I look forward to reading your postings after you have caught up with the rest of us.

cheers!

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Laughing Man: Jo and her representatives do have the right to approve or take down fanfic set in Jo’s world using her characters should she choose to. However, I suspect the author is just being proactive in this case, as after the publicity this site generated, it was clearly going to be noticed by Jo’s people, so he might as well make sure that they approve (or at least don’t disapprove) of what he intends before he starts rather than wait for Jo’s lawyers to contact him.

Avatar Image says:

MISTAKE MISTAKE MISTAKE!!!!

It seems that Remus, who is obviously on the cover of the book behind James, is standing in the moonlight and he isn’t changing into a werewolf…..WHAT”S WITH THAT!!!!???

Avatar Image says:

Someone else who somehow thinks they are entitled to make a buck off J.K.R.’s intellectual property (and it will—the moment advertisements start appearing). This, of course, is exactly the problem that comes about when copyrights are flagrantly violated. Everyone wants to get in on it. But the sad thing is that most of the imitators are also terrible writers.

Avatar Image says:

demetry: I think it’s supposed to be James Harry’s son. I have a hard time believing the guy is surprised by the attention. The whole way the site is done seems on purpose to produce hype. And sure, I’m hyped.

Avatar Image says:

If it’s just fanfict then I’m fine with it! I was just worried that he was trying to make profit, but this clears everythign up – what a media frenzy over fanfiction! WOW! Hehe. That’s publicity eh?

Avatar Image says:

No, roonwit, I’m sorry, JKR and her reps do NOT have the right to approve Fanfic people write for fun.

People have the right to write and post fanfics for fun without having someone ‘approve’ it.

You, honestly, think that JKR’s camp should have the right to approve stories, pictures, wizard rock, etc.?

You can’t be serious. People should have the right to write and create for fun without having the fiction police ‘approve’ it.

Avatar Image says:

laughing man: Whether they “should” is different than if they have the right to. If Jo wanted to approve every fanfic, I think that she probably would have the legal right…HOWEVER…does she really want to spend her life like that? Probably not. And is she fine with people expressing themselves creatively in her world so long as it’s a) not pornographic, and b) not for profit? Yeah, she is. So, she doesn’t ask that people do that. Most authors do not. But some authors deny the right to ANY and all fanfic or fan sites. Prince, Anne Rice. But Jo has been quite clear on this over the years – those two stipulations agreed? OK, great. Have fun. That’s just how it’s been and how we all hope it will continue to be.

Avatar Image says:

laughing man is just trying to pull everyone’s chain, please don’t let him.

the hype behind the site started with no one knowing what the site contained. in the context of other problems with copyright etc, many of us did wonder what was going on. the situation has been clarified as far as JKR is concerned, so, unless WB suddenly has an issue the matter is closed.

And, you may have missed this the first time around, let me post this again just for you, laughing….

For those that seem to have missed the sometimes painful discussions of late about copyright, trademarks, and intellectual property rights, please take the time to look at the last (oh, let’s say..) two weeks of announcements, and then read the comments. You’ll find detailed explanations about the legal issues involved, including from several attorneys who are not connected with the case.

I’m sure you’ll find the effort worthwhile, and that most of your questions will be answered. I look forward to reading your postings after you have caught up with the rest of us.

Please don’t drag us down those discussions again, we’ve been there, and unless you have something new to add its just old tosh we don’t need to revisit

Avatar Image says:

Where can I find the cover of the book? Everyone’s talking about it, but I cant find it!

Avatar Image says:

This is really good news. And for those of you who said that he did the website so professional looking to get all the press and attention, I think you are very wrong in your accusations. The man is a graphic artist, I think if his site didn’t look professional it would make him look bad. He obviously just takes his work very seriously, he doesn’t want money, so what difference does it make that hes getting all the publicity?

Avatar Image says:

Ok, so I have now looked all over the internet (including ask peeves and lexicon) and still cannot find the picture of the cover for this book. Please can anyone help me? Am I being completely oblivious or something?

Avatar Image says:

How could there be a cover, its completely online. There is no print version to have a cover.

Avatar Image says:

Unreal. I’m not trying to ‘yank everyone’s chains’, I don’t need to brush up on my copyright law, etc. etc. My point is completely on topic. The article was about legal action and JKR’s camp approving the book. My comment was about that. My point was to bring up the topic of her having to ‘approve’ fan fic. Last time I checked, it was okay to post comments and opinions.

I’m merely bringing up the subject of an author approving a fanfic that was written for non-profit. (And for you copyright fanatics, out there, let me remind you that doing something non-profit does NOT exempt you from copyright laws). Anycrap, my point was this, does anyone else have a problem with the need for JKR’s camp to ‘approve’ fanfic. Does that mean if a fanfic proposes ideas or storylines that JKR disapproves us she can ‘unapprove’ it and the author has take it down?!

The fact is ALL fan fiction, wizard rock, and art pieces of the world of Harry Potter ARE a violation of copyright. So, technically, ALL could be subject to this kind of scrutiny.

I’m sorry if you feel that this dragging you down ‘those’ discussions again, but I think it’s funny that ‘those’ discussions are coming up again. First the Lexicon ordeal, and now a piece of fan fiction that also received legal scrutiny and very easily could have received some sort of injuction as well.

And what does this tell us about other fan fictions as well – or wizard rock, or fan made trailers on YouTube that use HP movie footage? Will the WB, JKR or her agents/representation widen their bubble and start looking at these other creations as well?

Avatar Image says:

Wait a second here, am I the only one feeling this situation seems very hypocritical. At first, when it was reported, didn’t it seem as though this person was misleading the public with this elaborate, promotional push, via a very professional looking site? Then he forwards it to Christopher Little with assurances he won’t profit from it, JKR is fine with it. So, how are people going to rationalize this when his site starts to include on-line advertising? In addition, there a number of excellent sites that host fan fiction like PhoenixSong, Checkmated, some of which is very well done. Those writers have no expectations, do it as a labour of love, don’t pursue any promotional push for their work, some of these writers, not all, are actually very talented, yet this guy get’s some huge promotional push that meets JKR’s approval? Meanwhile we have the copyright plagerism issue over a now not-to-be published reference book by a longtime Potter fan webmaster. How is any of this consistant? Of course, I guess if a professional web designer makes it look professional enough and has the right connections, they can do what they like with no recourse. How the worm turns.

Avatar Image says:

So, I suppose my idea of everyone in the forums going in together to buy the ‘Tales of Beedle the Bard’ at the auction, then scanning it in and putting it online for everyone in fandom to enjoy is out of the question?

Crap. I should cancel that PayPal account, then.

Avatar Image says:

Goodness, this guy must be one heck of a writer! I can’t wait to read his fic :). Glad he went about getting permission the right way :).

Avatar Image says:

He shouldn’t “have” to ask for permission in the first place. It is on line and not for profit.

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krista, he better be a good writer after all this hype!

Laughing, sorry you cannot see the distinction between fan-fic (and wizard rock, etc) and the two recent cases surrounding the Hogwarts in India and RDR. And, again, you do not seem to grasp the concept of copyright, trademark and intellectual property.

Lippert was smart, in my opinion, to be proactive and prevent potential problems by contacting Christopher Little. There is no indication that JKR read the materials, and certainly no indication that she or her representatives expect to review all fan fic. Incidentally, your claim of legal scrutiny in this case is not borne out by the facts available to us. Nor is the concern that ” WB, JKR or her agents/representation widen their bubble”... sorry, I just see this as conjuring an imaginary problem, since it doesn’t exist. I also found it very odd that you insist in writing as if JKR personally was manipulating and choreographing each move. In brief then your argument lacks merit and logic, and hence appears to be presented only to see what reactions it provokes.

Sure, your entitled to your opinion. You can even keep banging away here. Shrug. I just will ignore you from now on, that’s all.

Matt, actually, does raise an interesting idea: what if Lippert should include online advertizing? Interesting hypothetical possibility.

Avatar Image says:

I agree with Amanda (if I’m reading her correctly) that the fanfic author seems disingenuous – he was surprised by the reaction? Really? So he didn’t intend on making a fairly good impression of an official HP site and cleared the matter up the moment it became public?

I don’t think his intentions are malicious, but I don’t think anyone is that naive, either, particularly if they contacted JKR’s agents to see if it was OK. Do most/many fanfiction writers do that? Do most of them think the sites they create are likely to cause issues where getting an OK is necessary?

In any case, I won’t be reading Mr. Lippert’s fic because I think the premise is quite naff, really.

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Daphne, going by the information available to us, Lippert didn’t “have to”, he “chose to”. Given the broader context, he was being sensible IMHO, and prevented any problems.

Matt, on reflection, my assumption is that if the story is available to readers for free, the advertizing won’t matter. If there was a charge to read the story, that’s when there would be a problem, yes?

Avatar Image says:

Bubd, thank you for your comments. Frankly, there’s been a lot of arbitrary arguments from Ms, Rowling’s handlers over ‘copyright infringment’, in as as much as the arguments seem to fall into how many quotes from the books constitute infringement, and this is over sites that have been in exhistance for many years now. The arguments have become arbitrary over where the on-line fandom has crossed a line. I agree the problem has little to do with Ms. Rowling personally, but has to do with her handlers, will the people surrounding her begin to make such arbitrary decisions as to list what fan sites meet their approval and which one’s do not? We are talking after all of a multi-billion dollar franchise. While there’s no evidence to support alarm, I am partially bracing to see long standing fan-sites, deamed by JKR’s handlers, to not meet or meet approval. Yes, that seems kneejerk, but I’m not discounting the possibility.

As far as the advertising issue is concerned, yes, the money rasied for on-line advertising is very little. Yet, couldn’t JKR’s handlers not make the arbitrary decision that any money raised through a non-profit fan site is an infringement? I can’t quite discount what they might determine in the future.

Frankly, I’m disilluioned enough that I am even closer to writing a personal letter to Christopher Little about the seamingly increasing, combative tone over the on-line fan community, as well as a clarifcation over where things stand in the future.

Avatar Image says:

Just because the man is a graphic artist and his site is so far good doesn’t mean the fic is worth the screen it’s written on … be interesting to find out. Graphic artistry talents don’t mena he is a talented author. Of course he may be, but i’m not putting stock in his graphic abilities that he’s going to produce a fabulous story.

Avatar Image says:

oh man, i could just imagin if all the fanfic authors out there decided to do “the sensible thing” and send in their fics for approval. after the first 20000 fics they’d probably just make a blanket statment banning it all. and what about these restrictions she did say. does that mean all R and NC17 fics are illigal? because i’m not exagerating when i say that there are thousands of them out there too.

i think people are just getting worked up for nothing, this guy by sending his fic in for approval when he didn’t need to really rubs me the wrong way. why would he do that unless he really has No idea about how the online fandom works, in which case i really don’t like that he’s getting all this attention. i believe you earn your popularity in a fandom, not pull some publicity stunt and all of a sudden everyone wants to read your fic. WHY PEOPLE? what else have you read by him that makes you want to invest the time in a full lenght novel fanfic? who’s recomended him? what rec’er sights is he listed on? what exchanges/games/communities does he post to? what archives that do screenings have accepted his work?

so in the end, why do all of you, who never typically read fanfiction, plan to read this over someone who meets all the criteria above?

gotta love the media, i see now why the pet rock was so popular. people will buy anything if you stick it under their noes’s

Avatar Image says:

Has anyone seen he’s got a thing preview on his site? Its cover art. Seems strange he’s got cover art to me. H must just be releasing it with the first chapter.

Avatar Image says:

Matt, thank you. That’s exactly what I’m saying. I’m concerned (and watchful) over this stance that JKR’s people (and the WB to some extent) are taking.

I understand the need to protect copyright, WB’s interest in protecting official HP merchandise and media, and JKR’s need to protect her work and, perhaps more importantly, the spirit of her work. But, it seems to me if things keep going down this road, problems would arise.

Incidentally, how does Leaky handle it? I’m assuming the ’.org’ means they are non-profit, though again, that doesn’t exclude you from copyright laws. Obviously, they are doing online advertising, but, again, I’m assuming the revenue generated goes back into developing the site. I’m sure they must work closely with reps from JKR, WB, book publishers, etc., etc.

Though, I, personally, have no problem with the staff making money off the site – they do a great job.

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Had a bit of time between preparing courses for today’s meal, and went back through the news announcements to Nov 13, the first mention of the James Potter project. The source appears to be a 9 Nov news.com piece, found at http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,23663,22729888-10388,00.html?from=mostpop

So, how did news.com learn of the project? There’s a variety of questions I have, that have more to do with chronology and the spread of information, which I doubt will ever be answered (only direct participants would be able to answer questions like “when did Lippet contact Christopher Little, and what at the time was Lippet’s reasoning for do so?”). Cassius and others are right in observing that he would have to be rather disingenuous not to have anticipated fan interest…let’s face it, the publicity generated has/will lead many to his site (Matt’s point about advertizing may apply here?)

We should recognize that this guy worked fast, both in the writing and in constructing the site itself. That’s some achievement in itself, even if the quality of writing does not in the end satisfy. Let’s hope krista is right, and that after all the hype we all get a good read.

The only possible glitch that I can see would come from WB, which would be more concerned by the uses of images, music and other materials that could be “too similar” to what’s in the films. Does anyone know if they have made any statements specifically about this project recently? Or, are they waiting to see what’s inside the site?

Matt, sure, anything is possible, and WB (et al) could hire a team of net-savvy law students to plow thru the internet looking for every piece of HP material—but, it hasn’t happened, and its pretty unlikely that it will. I just did a quick Google using Harry Potter as the key words, which turned up 68,200,000 hits….imagine some poor bleary eyed office drones, sitting in tiny cubicles, staring at their computer screens as they struggle to evaluate every instance! If the folks at WB really cared, they would at least have someone monitoring the discussions here at Leaky and the other major fan sites, as a means of gauging fan opinion and reactions…I’m not seeing any evidence of that, are you? (Frankly, I wish they would! Some of the disappointments that have been expressed about the films might have been avoided if WB reps were paying attention to what informed fans posted here). Most of all I think you are right to separate out the corporate HP, which appears to be primarily WB at this time, from either the publishers or JKR herself.

siyrean, my comment about Lippet showing good common sense in contacting Christopher Little is very specific to the context, not meant as a general rule (hehehe, just had an image of everyone who does anything HP connected—fanfic, wizard rock, HP puppets, etc—sending every scrap into the offices of Christopher Little and of WB! What a mess that would create!). No, siyrean, I simply meant that in the immediate context of the Indian Hogwarts and RDR issues, he prevented potential problems for himself. That rather convinces me of his ‘good faith’, if you will.

And, we’ll just need to wait and see what Lippet has prepared for us…

Happy Thanksgiving to those celebrating today —lots of chocolate in the candy bowl on the counter, help yourselves…

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siyrean, you are asking us what previous work there is to prove that this guy can write and why we would want to read it.

Let me ask you something: What previous work was there that made you want to read Harry Potter?

Now, don’t think I’m trying to start things, because I have no idea why people would fight over this matter. He sent it in to make sure it was not illegal because people were viewing his site and believing that it is JKR’s work. To me, that seems like the right way to go about things. For those of you asking then why doesn’t every fanfic have to be sent for aprroval, how many fanfics do you know that are the size of a full-length novel that have a website? He made it for his family, and after they read it, I’m sure they said “You should put this online!”. And he, being a graphic artist, thought it would be cool and fun to make a website for it. If you wrote a full-lenght fanfic novel, and gave it your kids who LOVE Harry Potter, they would most likely love it just as much, especially since the series is over and making it more special, written by their mom or dad. If you still believe that the story is going to be terrible and you won’t read it because we have no backround writing from this guy, fine. BUT, why not read the first 2 chapters and then decide. Because you are making conclusions about the story when you haven’t even READ it yet. It’s like people wanting Harry Potter banned when they haven’t even read it yet. DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER (or website or whatever).... (wow that was a cheezy line.) Just read it before you critize it!

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@ laughing man “You are wrong, sir!” JKR can have fanfic sites removed for copyright violation. Legally, she has that right. You can hold any opinion that you want but it doesn’t change the law. That is one of the reasons her suit against RDR is generating interest outside the HP community. The ruling could have far-raching effects in fanfiction.

I absolutely abhor fanfiction (big Deleterius fan) but I’ll read this one.

Happy Thanksgiving to the Yanks. Good day to everyone else!

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wondering: of course she can-that's my point. Technically, all fan fiction IS a violation of copyright. I'm sure every1 has seen those warnings the end of movies & the beginning of books that mention ‘all names places events, etc.’ are copyrighted. Which is, technically, why even elements like wizard rock also would be subject 2copyright laws as well.

All I’m saying is this latest news could have some interesting side fx.

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Why’s everyone so excited about it? It’s just another fanfic. There’s thousands of the things around.

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ChrisB,

We presumably have a wide range of reasons for our interest. In my case, as well as some others who have been posting in this and related threads, its because of an interest in the copyright and intellectual property issues involved. The key tho is that any legal decisions that could potentially emerge from the sad situation surrounding RDR and WB -or if a problem developed around Lippet’s site—might have an impact in other areas of print and online publishing, as well as possibly in the fair use clauses of copyright law. Or, to put it another way, the issues go far beyond anything to do with the HP world. There have been other legal cases (not involving fiction or film) in recent years that will impact how information is (or is not) available, materials for educational purposes, software development and other areas as well. So, amazing as this may sound, the bigger issues dwarf anything connected with HP ;)

Laughing, an olive branch, or at least a drumstick. Look, you’re intelligent, that shows; you write well. That’s why I read your contributions so closely, looking for ideas or insights that could/would further the discussion. The entire copyright (etc) situation is more complicated than you credit, I think. But, I would welcome thoughtful and nuanced postings that examine the available information to push our understanding to a higher level.

Still, it does appeal to my awful sense of the universe to imagine sending every scrap of fanfic (etc) into WB.

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sorry for the strike through….here’s that last post again with all empahses removed

ChrisB,

We presumably have a wide range of reasons for our interest. In my case, as well as some others who have been posting in this and related threads, its because of an interest in the copyright and intellectual property issues involved. The key tho is that any legal decisions that could potentially emerge from the sad situation surrounding RDR and WB -or if a problem developed around Lippet’s site—might have an impact in other areas of print and online publishing, as well as possibly in the fair use clauses of copyright law. Or, to put it another way, the issues go far beyond anything to do with the HP world. There have been other legal cases (not involving fiction or film) in recent years that will impact how information is (or is not) available, materials for educational purposes, software development and other areas as well. So, amazing as this may sound, the bigger issues dwarf anything connected with HP ;)

Laughing, an olive branch, or at least a drumstick. Look, you’re intelligent, that shows; you write well. That’s why I read your contributions so closely, looking for ideas or insights that could/would further the discussion. The entire copyright (etc) situation is more complicated than you credit, I think. But, I would welcome thoughtful and nuanced postings that examine the available information to push our understanding to a higher level.

Still, it does appeal to my awful sense of the universe to imagine sending every scrap of fanfic (etc) into WB.

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budb – drumstick accepted! Yes I suppose your right copyright is a many complicated thing. That’s the great thing about forums people can discuss alternating opinions! I guess do sound a bit like chicken little.

Anyway, it will be interesting to watch new developments.

Off to eat a turkey!

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wow, I was reading through these comments, and I can’t believe how mean some of you were to Amanda. She has a right to her own opinion, and here you go attacking her with malicious comments. Do none of you see the hypocrasy in saying (quite rudely) she shouldn’t say things about him when she knows nothing about who he is, and then you go saying things about HER? Even those of who are supposedly “defending” her cough cough Confederate Lady. I especially loved your comment: “Please, let us not “gang up” on poor Amanda….she’s obviously an unhappy person, and would like everyone else to be the same…poor thing! (smiling, solicitously)” Who’s making assumptions now? And Budb, I don’t see how you can read that and think she’s “asking people to be courteous and polite with one another.” confederate lady, that is quite possibly the most hypocritcal (not to mention ironic) statement I’ve ever read. how would you feel if I made the same assumptions about you based on the pathetic amount of information i could gather? I’m inclined to say that you are a southern older woman, (maybe you have some kids based on the “motherly” tone in your commnet)who probably tells people she’s not rascist (you read HP, after all), yet your high opinion of the confederate flag would suggest otherwise. But that WOULD be making assumptions. have a happy thanksgiving everyone, HA

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and a very happy to you as well, christine.

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“Let me ask you something: What previous work was there that made you want to read Harry Potter?”

word of mouth. the hype around the HP series kept me from reading them for many years because i don’t believe in reading what mainstream media tells me too. if my respected friends who’s opinions i value on the other had recomend them… well then i decided they were worth looking into.

“For those of you asking then why doesn’t every fanfic have to be sent for aprroval, how many fanfics do you know that are the size of a full-length novel that have a website?” many prolific and established fic writer in the fandom have their own websites to host their work since they are popular enough to get thousands of hits no i just have my priorities. after all, there are hundreds of fics out there i haven’t read yet that do meet the criteria i specified. maybe once i’m done looking through those i’ll glance at the reviews for this to see if it’s worth my time.

"If you still believe that the story is going to be terrible and you won’t read it because we have no backround writing from this guy, fine. BUT, why not read the first 2 chapters and then decide. Because you are making conclusions about the story when you haven’t even READ it yet."

“It’s like people wanting Harry Potter banned when they haven’t even read it yet. DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER (or website or whatever).... (wow that was a cheezy line.) Just read it before you critize it!” not critizising, i just beleive there are a lot more authors out there deserving your readership that have worked to earn it.

yeah budb, i was just being flippant with that comment about needing approval since some people seem to be freaking out about it and its “possible implications”. blast the internet for it inability to detect personal humor.

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huh, well that was weird. what i meant to say was

“BUT, why not read the first 2 chapters and then decide. Because you are making conclusions about the story when you haven’t even READ it yet.” no i just have my priorities. after all, there are hundreds of fics out there i haven’t read yet that do meet the criteria i specified. maybe once i’m done looking through those i’ll glance at the reviews for this to see if it’s worth my time.

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siyrean: “so in the end, why do all of you, who never typically read fanfiction, plan to read this over someone who meets all the criteria above?”

I share totally this question. Why? As had been said, there are thousand fanfiction in the Internet Word, and being a graphic site designer (or havin the help of one) doesn’t say anything about writing talent.

That would-ne-author has a great talent, yes, in subverting ways of fandom! He has got himself a huge and free popularity, taking the short ride (the mediatical one), thus escaping the long and obscure path of notoriety in the fanfiction fandom.

What to think about him? For the moment, I don’t sympathise at all! (Hum… somebody says, Gilderoy… ?).

But if there is talent (recognised by real critics), I would try by myself, reading some lines first, as I do in bookhops or on the fanfiction sites.

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Can i just ask about copyright laws. If I made my own harry potter t-shirt with like a harry potter quote on it, would that be legal and could WB and Jo sue me?

All this legal stuff is worrying me!

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meera you’re fine, relax. the problem would be if you tried to mass produce the shirts and sell them. 99.9999999…% of the time copy right (etc) issues never effect individuals making unique items for their own use. The only case I know of was about 10 years ago, when some idiots at Disney made a decision that preschools and other small businesses couldn’t use Disney cartoon images as decorations without paying a fee; stupid lawyers, they had to backtrack fast when they realized bad Disney looked for forcing preschools to paint over pictures of Mickey and Goofie!

i do want to get one of those “Don’t Judge a Book by its Movie” shirts….

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I think that the only problem WB/JKR Lawyers might have had with the website was that it lacked any obvious disclaimer that it an official site (the need for a rumor debunking attests to this fact). Realizing this, the author decided to make sure everything was ok copyright wise. As far as we know, WB/JKR lawyers did not ask to review the material.

I don’t think that any of the online fanfics or other websites are in danger though. Some are pointing to the Lexicon issue as proof that it is. However the Lexicon issue has to do with a PRINT version of the Lexicon. The difference between print and on-line is huge, because the law is still developing about how online copyright should work. The Lexicon is also different because, for the most part, it is just a rearrangement of the facts in the HP books. Fanfic is not, it is using the HP materials in a creative way to make something completely new. In fact, as long as this guy used disclaimers, he could probably print Elder’s Crossing, sell it, profit from it, and still be just fine legally.

The advirtising is also a non-issue. Well known, ALREADY APPROVED HP sites containing fanfic use advirtising.

Sorry for the rant, I was just kind of getting fed-up reading some of the comments in here.

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Fossil, I feel I have to comment and clarify your point about the Lexicon.

“it is just a rearrangement of the facts in the HP books.”

Actually, there’s more to the Lexicon then just rearrangement of facts, in the book chapters summaries alone, there are observations and readers guide comments about what is unfolding in the books. This disingenuous ‘rearrangement of the facts’ rationalization that has crept up to defend JKR legal circle diminishes unfairly a lot of hard work by those people who work on that site. I stand by every statement I have made here in my previous posts. Ms. Rowlings handlers can continue to pursue an adversarial approach to the on-line community, or not. It’s their choice. They can also continue to be inconsistent, due to the flattery of one person who approached them over a fan fiction, who get’s unwarranted attention for an unofficial blessing, compared to all of the other fan fiction writers and fans who run HP websites, that never get any recognition from the public or JKR’s circle. Which again is the choice of JKR’s handlers, but the spirit of much of the points in her books seems to be getting forgotten and lost, by others and her.

Annia, you made a great observation by mentioning Lockhart in comparison to Lippet.

Having said all of that. I really do hope that everyone had a great Thanksgiving, that is everyone on American soil, as well as everyone else had a great weekend.

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although this fanfic sounds highly interesting and i will most likely read it. i hope it does not distruct the vision of harry potter i have already.

oh and in regards to this amanda persons comment…. quite rude. quite rude indeed

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Matt,

Yes, I agree that the Lexicon has quite a bit of analysis in the form of essays, etc. on their website. However, the majority of the content of the lexicon is either direct quotes from the HP novels or summary. Neither of those is original content, and even though they put a lot of hard work into organizing those facts, that does not matter under copyright law. In copyright law there is a limit to how much material you can use directly from a source and still legally publish. As far as I can tell, the Lexicon goes over that limit.

I’m not sure what your evidence is on JKR’s handlers being adversarial to the online community. So far, they have only contended a work intended to be published and sold in print. In fact, JKR and WB have given the websites quite a bit of recognition. Jo has her fan site award, WB is in direct contact with the fansites, treating them as bonafide media outlets by inviting them to press releases, directly giving them news information, and inviting them to the HP movie premiers. How is that adversarial????

I am also not sure why you think that JKR’s handlers have preferrred Elder’s Crossing over any other fan fics. The only people we have heard from about Elder’s Crossing is from the media (incorrectly) and from the author himself. As far as we know, all of the online fanfics have equal approval. Fan fic hosting sites (mugglenet, hpana, etc.) have been around for years, and won fan site awards from Jo. Thus, fan fics obviously have her, and her lawyer’s, approval. So naturally, when the auther of Elder’s Crossing asked if he had approval for his fan fic, they said yes. The only reason we even know he has approval is because of the mess the media made of it. For some reason (probably just to get more readers) the media decided to say that JKR was challenging the Elder’s Crossing website. To set the record straight, the auther of the Elder’s Crossing fan fic revealed that he did have approval. This is all such a big deal because the media and the fans made it a big deal. The only thing JKR’s circle did was answer a question.

Fossil

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For those people who are asking about the fanfic’s cover art it is on the site, just follow the link for the site on this page, click the bean and start looking for the passwards. It’s a great site, I had fun going through it. I agree the hype behind his site isn’t entirely innocent, I think he is proud of his fanfic and wanted to get people to read it. And he succeeded. I want to read it and who know Jk might even read it, but it isn’t anything to get grouchy about. *Quick question: Is it about Harry’s dad or Harry’s son. I’ve heard both. It’s great that the Harry Potter universe is getting expanded on with a new book and it FREE!!!

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Demetry… maybe the person you’re looking at is Teddy, Remus and Tonk’s son?

Amanda last I heard the timeline was this.

`Mr. Little wrote a story for his family about Harry and Ginny’s firstborn. `His family, and their friends, loved it and challenged him to put it online. `Being a web designer he took up the challenge in a big way. `People who stumbled onto the site mistook it for an official prequel/sequel story by JKR and contacted WB for clarification. `Mr. Litte contacted JKR and company to make sure there were no further misunderstandings.

EVERYONE’s HAPPY and waiting for a new fanfic!!

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Demetry… maybe the person you’re looking at is Teddy, Remus and Tonk’s son?

Amanda last I heard the timeline was this.


Mr. Lippert wrote a story for his family about Harry and Ginny’s firstborn.
His family, and their friends, loved it and challenged him to put it online.
Being a web designer he took up the challenge in a big way.
People who stumbled onto the site mistook it for an official prequel/sequel story by JKR and contacted WB for clarification.
Mr. Lippert contacted JKR and company to make sure there were no further misunderstandings.

EVERYONE’s HAPPY and waiting for a new fanfic!!

Lippert not Little, damn me posting five min before i go to sleep

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After all this hype, it better be good. Some fanfic is lousy, but if he puts the same effort into writing as he did for making his site…. Can’t wait to see it!

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Finally had time to skip over to the site and thought the man did an excellent job. Found it entertaining in collecting the four passwords. You can tell it is designed for younger fans because of the ease in finding the clues.

Kudos to Mr. Lippert for going to great lengths in making it possible to be able to share it with us.

I personally am look forward to giving it a try.

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I am very excited to read this new book in the HP world. I have been jonsing for a fix sense the last book came out. So bravo to this guy for giving us all what we wanted. And yeah its free cant beat that. I hope its a good read. I have all my passwords and I am ready to go. And so what if he wants to be published if its a big success, Jo already said she wasnt going to write anymore in this world. So let him make a buck if hes good at it.

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it’s open!!!

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I’ve just read the first three chapters and so far I’m impressed. His sense of humour and writing style seems to be very similar to Rowling’s, so it’s been a bit difficult for me to think of it as a fanfic. What I’m enjoying the most, though, is his use of logic in Technomancy. I don’t read fanfics either, to those of you who have mentioned the same, but I think he’s done a commendable job so far and hope that everyone will give it a chance.

All of the insults and slander are entirely uncalled for, in my opinion. I don’t understand why people are mad because he made the site look good, like this Amanda person. He wasn’t trying to fool anyone…He’s a web designer by trade and simply did his job well, so sue him (because JK and Warner Brothers aren’t going to =3).

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There have been no comments here for the last 2 days. Curious! I’ve read the first 5 chapters and I find the story very interesting. I wonder why the hard core bloggers here are so silent all of a sudden. TLC hasn`t posted anything about Mr. Lippert and his work either. What is going on here?

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I just finished the story and LOVED it!

GEO as people have taken to calling Mr. Lippert is an excellent writer, and has spent a good amount of time responding to critics and fans. I for one hope he continues writing these fictions, and from what I see on the messageboard/guestbook I am not alone.

Easiest link to the full story: http://www.elderscrossing.com/muggleentry.html

Avatar ImageKent says: I am one of G. Norman Lippert's loyal readers and would like to encourage everyone to read both "James Potter and the Hall of Elders' Crossing" and it's companion book, "James Potter and the Curse of the Gatekeeper". The stories may not be strictly "canon" but they are both enjoyable and exciting to read. There are so few good "fan fictions" on the web to dismiss these stories without even reading them is completely uncalled for. George's stories have been read worldwide and translated into several languages by fans of the stories. I feel that George's talent has been ignored by the majority of the "fan fiction" community, which has been their loss. If anyone associated with The Leaky cauldron reads this post and wants to delete it, so be it. I thank you for reading this post.

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