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Had a bit of time between preparing courses for today’s meal, and went back through the news announcements to Nov 13, the first mention of the James Potter project. The source appears to be a 9 Nov news.com piece, found at http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,23663,22729888-10388,00.html?from=mostpop

So, how did news.com learn of the project? There’s a variety of questions I have, that have more to do with chronology and the spread of information, which I doubt will ever be answered (only direct participants would be able to answer questions like “when did Lippet contact Christopher Little, and what at the time was Lippet’s reasoning for do so?”). Cassius and others are right in observing that he would have to be rather disingenuous not to have anticipated fan interest…let’s face it, the publicity generated has/will lead many to his site (Matt’s point about advertizing may apply here?)

We should recognize that this guy worked fast, both in the writing and in constructing the site itself. That’s some achievement in itself, even if the quality of writing does not in the end satisfy. Let’s hope krista is right, and that after all the hype we all get a good read.

The only possible glitch that I can see would come from WB, which would be more concerned by the uses of images, music and other materials that could be “too similar” to what’s in the films. Does anyone know if they have made any statements specifically about this project recently? Or, are they waiting to see what’s inside the site?

Matt, sure, anything is possible, and WB (et al) could hire a team of net-savvy law students to plow thru the internet looking for every piece of HP material—but, it hasn’t happened, and its pretty unlikely that it will. I just did a quick Google using Harry Potter as the key words, which turned up 68,200,000 hits….imagine some poor bleary eyed office drones, sitting in tiny cubicles, staring at their computer screens as they struggle to evaluate every instance! If the folks at WB really cared, they would at least have someone monitoring the discussions here at Leaky and the other major fan sites, as a means of gauging fan opinion and reactions…I’m not seeing any evidence of that, are you? (Frankly, I wish they would! Some of the disappointments that have been expressed about the films might have been avoided if WB reps were paying attention to what informed fans posted here). Most of all I think you are right to separate out the corporate HP, which appears to be primarily WB at this time, from either the publishers or JKR herself.

siyrean, my comment about Lippet showing good common sense in contacting Christopher Little is very specific to the context, not meant as a general rule (hehehe, just had an image of everyone who does anything HP connected—fanfic, wizard rock, HP puppets, etc—sending every scrap into the offices of Christopher Little and of WB! What a mess that would create!). No, siyrean, I simply meant that in the immediate context of the Indian Hogwarts and RDR issues, he prevented potential problems for himself. That rather convinces me of his ‘good faith’, if you will.

And, we’ll just need to wait and see what Lippet has prepared for us…

Happy Thanksgiving to those celebrating today —lots of chocolate in the candy bowl on the counter, help yourselves…

siyrean, you are asking us what previous work there is to prove that this guy can write and why we would want to read it.

Let me ask you something: What previous work was there that made you want to read Harry Potter?

Now, don’t think I’m trying to start things, because I have no idea why people would fight over this matter. He sent it in to make sure it was not illegal because people were viewing his site and believing that it is JKR’s work. To me, that seems like the right way to go about things. For those of you asking then why doesn’t every fanfic have to be sent for aprroval, how many fanfics do you know that are the size of a full-length novel that have a website? He made it for his family, and after they read it, I’m sure they said “You should put this online!”. And he, being a graphic artist, thought it would be cool and fun to make a website for it. If you wrote a full-lenght fanfic novel, and gave it your kids who LOVE Harry Potter, they would most likely love it just as much, especially since the series is over and making it more special, written by their mom or dad. If you still believe that the story is going to be terrible and you won’t read it because we have no backround writing from this guy, fine. BUT, why not read the first 2 chapters and then decide. Because you are making conclusions about the story when you haven’t even READ it yet. It’s like people wanting Harry Potter banned when they haven’t even read it yet. DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER (or website or whatever).... (wow that was a cheezy line.) Just read it before you critize it!

@ laughing man “You are wrong, sir!” JKR can have fanfic sites removed for copyright violation. Legally, she has that right. You can hold any opinion that you want but it doesn’t change the law. That is one of the reasons her suit against RDR is generating interest outside the HP community. The ruling could have far-raching effects in fanfiction.

I absolutely abhor fanfiction (big Deleterius fan) but I’ll read this one.

Happy Thanksgiving to the Yanks. Good day to everyone else!

wondering: of course she can-that's my point. Technically, all fan fiction IS a violation of copyright. I'm sure every1 has seen those warnings the end of movies & the beginning of books that mention ‘all names places events, etc.’ are copyrighted. Which is, technically, why even elements like wizard rock also would be subject 2copyright laws as well.

All I’m saying is this latest news could have some interesting side fx.

Why’s everyone so excited about it? It’s just another fanfic. There’s thousands of the things around.

ChrisB,

We presumably have a wide range of reasons for our interest. In my case, as well as some others who have been posting in this and related threads, its because of an interest in the copyright and intellectual property issues involved. The key tho is that any legal decisions that could potentially emerge from the sad situation surrounding RDR and WB -or if a problem developed around Lippet’s site—might have an impact in other areas of print and online publishing, as well as possibly in the fair use clauses of copyright law. Or, to put it another way, the issues go far beyond anything to do with the HP world. There have been other legal cases (not involving fiction or film) in recent years that will impact how information is (or is not) available, materials for educational purposes, software development and other areas as well. So, amazing as this may sound, the bigger issues dwarf anything connected with HP ;)

Laughing, an olive branch, or at least a drumstick. Look, you’re intelligent, that shows; you write well. That’s why I read your contributions so closely, looking for ideas or insights that could/would further the discussion. The entire copyright (etc) situation is more complicated than you credit, I think. But, I would welcome thoughtful and nuanced postings that examine the available information to push our understanding to a higher level.

Still, it does appeal to my awful sense of the universe to imagine sending every scrap of fanfic (etc) into WB.

sorry for the strike through….here’s that last post again with all empahses removed

ChrisB,

We presumably have a wide range of reasons for our interest. In my case, as well as some others who have been posting in this and related threads, its because of an interest in the copyright and intellectual property issues involved. The key tho is that any legal decisions that could potentially emerge from the sad situation surrounding RDR and WB -or if a problem developed around Lippet’s site—might have an impact in other areas of print and online publishing, as well as possibly in the fair use clauses of copyright law. Or, to put it another way, the issues go far beyond anything to do with the HP world. There have been other legal cases (not involving fiction or film) in recent years that will impact how information is (or is not) available, materials for educational purposes, software development and other areas as well. So, amazing as this may sound, the bigger issues dwarf anything connected with HP ;)

Laughing, an olive branch, or at least a drumstick. Look, you’re intelligent, that shows; you write well. That’s why I read your contributions so closely, looking for ideas or insights that could/would further the discussion. The entire copyright (etc) situation is more complicated than you credit, I think. But, I would welcome thoughtful and nuanced postings that examine the available information to push our understanding to a higher level.

Still, it does appeal to my awful sense of the universe to imagine sending every scrap of fanfic (etc) into WB.

budb – drumstick accepted! Yes I suppose your right copyright is a many complicated thing. That’s the great thing about forums people can discuss alternating opinions! I guess do sound a bit like chicken little.

Anyway, it will be interesting to watch new developments.

Off to eat a turkey!

wow, I was reading through these comments, and I can’t believe how mean some of you were to Amanda. She has a right to her own opinion, and here you go attacking her with malicious comments. Do none of you see the hypocrasy in saying (quite rudely) she shouldn’t say things about him when she knows nothing about who he is, and then you go saying things about HER? Even those of who are supposedly “defending” her cough cough Confederate Lady. I especially loved your comment: “Please, let us not “gang up” on poor Amanda….she’s obviously an unhappy person, and would like everyone else to be the same…poor thing! (smiling, solicitously)” Who’s making assumptions now? And Budb, I don’t see how you can read that and think she’s “asking people to be courteous and polite with one another.” confederate lady, that is quite possibly the most hypocritcal (not to mention ironic) statement I’ve ever read. how would you feel if I made the same assumptions about you based on the pathetic amount of information i could gather? I’m inclined to say that you are a southern older woman, (maybe you have some kids based on the “motherly” tone in your commnet)who probably tells people she’s not rascist (you read HP, after all), yet your high opinion of the confederate flag would suggest otherwise. But that WOULD be making assumptions. have a happy thanksgiving everyone, HA

and a very happy to you as well, christine.

“Let me ask you something: What previous work was there that made you want to read Harry Potter?”

word of mouth. the hype around the HP series kept me from reading them for many years because i don’t believe in reading what mainstream media tells me too. if my respected friends who’s opinions i value on the other had recomend them… well then i decided they were worth looking into.

“For those of you asking then why doesn’t every fanfic have to be sent for aprroval, how many fanfics do you know that are the size of a full-length novel that have a website?” many prolific and established fic writer in the fandom have their own websites to host their work since they are popular enough to get thousands of hits no i just have my priorities. after all, there are hundreds of fics out there i haven’t read yet that do meet the criteria i specified. maybe once i’m done looking through those i’ll glance at the reviews for this to see if it’s worth my time.

"If you still believe that the story is going to be terrible and you won’t read it because we have no backround writing from this guy, fine. BUT, why not read the first 2 chapters and then decide. Because you are making conclusions about the story when you haven’t even READ it yet."

“It’s like people wanting Harry Potter banned when they haven’t even read it yet. DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER (or website or whatever).... (wow that was a cheezy line.) Just read it before you critize it!” not critizising, i just beleive there are a lot more authors out there deserving your readership that have worked to earn it.

yeah budb, i was just being flippant with that comment about needing approval since some people seem to be freaking out about it and its “possible implications”. blast the internet for it inability to detect personal humor.

huh, well that was weird. what i meant to say was

“BUT, why not read the first 2 chapters and then decide. Because you are making conclusions about the story when you haven’t even READ it yet.” no i just have my priorities. after all, there are hundreds of fics out there i haven’t read yet that do meet the criteria i specified. maybe once i’m done looking through those i’ll glance at the reviews for this to see if it’s worth my time.

siyrean: “so in the end, why do all of you, who never typically read fanfiction, plan to read this over someone who meets all the criteria above?”

I share totally this question. Why? As had been said, there are thousand fanfiction in the Internet Word, and being a graphic site designer (or havin the help of one) doesn’t say anything about writing talent.

That would-ne-author has a great talent, yes, in subverting ways of fandom! He has got himself a huge and free popularity, taking the short ride (the mediatical one), thus escaping the long and obscure path of notoriety in the fanfiction fandom.

What to think about him? For the moment, I don’t sympathise at all! (Hum… somebody says, Gilderoy… ?).

But if there is talent (recognised by real critics), I would try by myself, reading some lines first, as I do in bookhops or on the fanfiction sites.

Can i just ask about copyright laws. If I made my own harry potter t-shirt with like a harry potter quote on it, would that be legal and could WB and Jo sue me?

All this legal stuff is worrying me!

meera you’re fine, relax. the problem would be if you tried to mass produce the shirts and sell them. 99.9999999…% of the time copy right (etc) issues never effect individuals making unique items for their own use. The only case I know of was about 10 years ago, when some idiots at Disney made a decision that preschools and other small businesses couldn’t use Disney cartoon images as decorations without paying a fee; stupid lawyers, they had to backtrack fast when they realized bad Disney looked for forcing preschools to paint over pictures of Mickey and Goofie!

i do want to get one of those “Don’t Judge a Book by its Movie” shirts….

I think that the only problem WB/JKR Lawyers might have had with the website was that it lacked any obvious disclaimer that it an official site (the need for a rumor debunking attests to this fact). Realizing this, the author decided to make sure everything was ok copyright wise. As far as we know, WB/JKR lawyers did not ask to review the material.

I don’t think that any of the online fanfics or other websites are in danger though. Some are pointing to the Lexicon issue as proof that it is. However the Lexicon issue has to do with a PRINT version of the Lexicon. The difference between print and on-line is huge, because the law is still developing about how online copyright should work. The Lexicon is also different because, for the most part, it is just a rearrangement of the facts in the HP books. Fanfic is not, it is using the HP materials in a creative way to make something completely new. In fact, as long as this guy used disclaimers, he could probably print Elder’s Crossing, sell it, profit from it, and still be just fine legally.

The advirtising is also a non-issue. Well known, ALREADY APPROVED HP sites containing fanfic use advirtising.

Sorry for the rant, I was just kind of getting fed-up reading some of the comments in here.

Fossil, I feel I have to comment and clarify your point about the Lexicon.

“it is just a rearrangement of the facts in the HP books.”

Actually, there’s more to the Lexicon then just rearrangement of facts, in the book chapters summaries alone, there are observations and readers guide comments about what is unfolding in the books. This disingenuous ‘rearrangement of the facts’ rationalization that has crept up to defend JKR legal circle diminishes unfairly a lot of hard work by those people who work on that site. I stand by every statement I have made here in my previous posts. Ms. Rowlings handlers can continue to pursue an adversarial approach to the on-line community, or not. It’s their choice. They can also continue to be inconsistent, due to the flattery of one person who approached them over a fan fiction, who get’s unwarranted attention for an unofficial blessing, compared to all of the other fan fiction writers and fans who run HP websites, that never get any recognition from the public or JKR’s circle. Which again is the choice of JKR’s handlers, but the spirit of much of the points in her books seems to be getting forgotten and lost, by others and her.

Annia, you made a great observation by mentioning Lockhart in comparison to Lippet.

Having said all of that. I really do hope that everyone had a great Thanksgiving, that is everyone on American soil, as well as everyone else had a great weekend.

although this fanfic sounds highly interesting and i will most likely read it. i hope it does not distruct the vision of harry potter i have already.

oh and in regards to this amanda persons comment…. quite rude. quite rude indeed

Matt,

Yes, I agree that the Lexicon has quite a bit of analysis in the form of essays, etc. on their website. However, the majority of the content of the lexicon is either direct quotes from the HP novels or summary. Neither of those is original content, and even though they put a lot of hard work into organizing those facts, that does not matter under copyright law. In copyright law there is a limit to how much material you can use directly from a source and still legally publish. As far as I can tell, the Lexicon goes over that limit.

I’m not sure what your evidence is on JKR’s handlers being adversarial to the online community. So far, they have only contended a work intended to be published and sold in print. In fact, JKR and WB have given the websites quite a bit of recognition. Jo has her fan site award, WB is in direct contact with the fansites, treating them as bonafide media outlets by inviting them to press releases, directly giving them news information, and inviting them to the HP movie premiers. How is that adversarial????

I am also not sure why you think that JKR’s handlers have preferrred Elder’s Crossing over any other fan fics. The only people we have heard from about Elder’s Crossing is from the media (incorrectly) and from the author himself. As far as we know, all of the online fanfics have equal approval. Fan fic hosting sites (mugglenet, hpana, etc.) have been around for years, and won fan site awards from Jo. Thus, fan fics obviously have her, and her lawyer’s, approval. So naturally, when the auther of Elder’s Crossing asked if he had approval for his fan fic, they said yes. The only reason we even know he has approval is because of the mess the media made of it. For some reason (probably just to get more readers) the media decided to say that JKR was challenging the Elder’s Crossing website. To set the record straight, the auther of the Elder’s Crossing fan fic revealed that he did have approval. This is all such a big deal because the media and the fans made it a big deal. The only thing JKR’s circle did was answer a question.

Fossil

For those people who are asking about the fanfic’s cover art it is on the site, just follow the link for the site on this page, click the bean and start looking for the passwards. It’s a great site, I had fun going through it. I agree the hype behind his site isn’t entirely innocent, I think he is proud of his fanfic and wanted to get people to read it. And he succeeded. I want to read it and who know Jk might even read it, but it isn’t anything to get grouchy about. *Quick question: Is it about Harry’s dad or Harry’s son. I’ve heard both. It’s great that the Harry Potter universe is getting expanded on with a new book and it FREE!!!