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Maven and Lilyp: Steve Vander Ark is not writing ABOUT Harry Potter, he is re-writing it in an alphabetically organized fashion and re-selling it for personal profit, whereas that profit of a legal book could go to charities benefiting people in real need of money, not greedy Mr. vander Ark and his publishing company.

This case will be decided on the basis of fair use. As Melissa in her fine article, “There is very little talk in this editorial of the merits of the actual Lexicon case or whether the book falls into fair use.” None of rules of Fair Use are how hard the work was. What matters is how much of Jo’s work Steve used, and how much new material he came up with. That is what this case will be decided on.

One of the great things about the Lexicon is that it has almost all of the facts you want in the HP world with no extra comment or criticism. So what makes it a great resource is also what makes it infringing.

Steve used to understand this. In 2005 he wrote “Jo has reserved all publishing rights to her intellectual property, which means that she’s the only one who may publish any book that is a guide or a encyclopedia to her world.” I think he had it right in 2005 and is wrong now!

I can’t believe HP Lexicon, and Steve Vander Ark would take this route. I can see if they worked with JKR to put out an online Encyclopedia. For one, it IS under her control. She dreamed it, created it, wrote it, and worked very hard to bring it to us. She has cared very much about the many thousands of people who read HP, she has I believe stated that she finds it flattering that so many people would take the time to create web sites, conventions, fanfiction base on her story. But she has also made clear, it is her story. Many roads have been made as far as WB realizing that if they work with fan web sites, rather than hammering them with legal moves, they [WB] can extend the following for the product. HP Lexicon can’t believe that they have information that has not already been written by JKR, they can only surmise, assume, etc. The HP Lexicon, and Steve Vander Ark, are “Biting the hand that feeds them”, as it were. I suggest they cease and desist, just chill.

I’m with Jo.

That’s all I’m going to say.

Jo Rowling is a person, not a corporation, and she is fighting for nothing less than the right to keep ownership of her work. The question here is ownership, not labour; you can work at something, like a website, for fifty years and still not own anything in it. Cliff’s notes and study guides are almost wholly prepared on works that are out of copyright. Harry Potter happens to be copyrighted.

JKR is up against people who are, unbelievably, attempting to sue her for breaching their “rights”(!) in Harry Potter, which exist only in their own minds. But nothing is a sure thing in law, and her opponents are counting on an upset to deliver them hitherto undreamt-of riches. If Jo Rowling loses ownership to these guys, it won’t just mean the end of her freedom to continue extending her world as she sees fit. Much worse than that: if the world’s best-selling author can’t secure her own copyright in a case like this, nobody will be able to. This has implications far beyond Potter.

For as much as Steve claims he “loves” this fandom, it’s amazing how he keeps pushing himself further and further out of it. I’m pretty sure no one but his most insane groupies would want to have anything to do with him anymore.

Actually, if anyone has ANY questions about what this case is about, or interested in reading some really cool and technical legal opinion, you should all check out the forum discussion. It’s in the Diagon Alley > Floo Grate > Pottercast ==>Lexicon Steve Case. It’s on its fourth thread now. These guys know what they’re talking about. Start at the beginning of the thread and read through the 19+ pages and see how much legal mumbo jumbo there is to sort through. And if you have any more questions, then just read through the first 3 threads. It’s quite illuminating. Fascinating discussions on the basis of RDR’s argument and WB/JKR’s rights. Makes me almost wanna be a lawyer.

Almost.

For as much as Steve claims he “loves” this fandom, it’s amazing how he keeps pushing himself further and further out of it. I’m pretty sure no one but his most insane groupies would want to have anything to do with him anymore.

Waits for ears to stop steaming

Okay, that’s it, all respect I had left for SVA just flew right out the window. She has allowed numerous companion books to be published because they followed the rules. He should not be talking about “creativity” when all he has done is basically alphabetized the books. An encyclopedia the way he is going to do it is not creative in one iota. She does own Harry Potter, Steve, it’s this little thing called copyright law. I am so mad at him right now, I can’t really say much more right now without cursing.

Beth, it’s not a very creative work, but it creative, nevertheless. And it is reliable. Everybody can do something similar? Perhaps, but that takes time and WORK, as even the people criticizing Steve admit. It doesn’t appear from thin air and it certainly won’t appear from Jo’s confused and scattered notes. she herself admitted using the Lexicon eventually.

What people seem to misunderstand is the difference between the Lexicon and fanfic. Fanfic can be much more creative, but fanfic is protected by copyright, because it is more or less the same kind of thing that her books – it is literary work that uses her universe. And her universe is copyrighted. The Lexicon is not literary work it is a reference work. Steve is a librarian, organizing information is his area of expertise and that’s what he made in the Lexicon: he organized information – and that means not only using alphabetical order, but organizing the cross references, thinking of the most useful ways of organizing it , in his case: spells, places, characters, families, creatures, places, british expressions, and so on and so forth. Other fansites tried to do something similar and failed, because it is not an easy thing to do.

Jo certainly hasn’t done anything similar (or else she wouldn’t make so many mistakes) and she herself admits her disorganization. I really think her encyclopedia will be interesting for the new information – and that Steve’s work won’t have – but I doubt she can do anything as god and reliable as the Lexicon (even if it eventually also commits mistakes) in terms of compiling information.

I was looking beyond Steve’s book. Yes, I know it’s a print copy of the Lexicon. And despite what some people have said here, the level of organization for such a work is not easy. The creative aspect come in with how it is presented.

Incidently, there are ‘encyclopedia’s published that do the very same thing that is being done here. Two examples: “The Complete Encyclopedia of Stephen King” – a repasting of facts from all his books, and “The Complete Stephen King Universe: A Guide To The Worlds Of Steven King.” I mention King as we know him to be a huge JKR fan and he’s still alive, and he was not the writer of either of these books, nor were they set out by his publishing companies.

And now I feel I’ve reached the choked mare. I expressed my opinion. And I’ve read everyone else’s. (Great thing, free speech, ain’t it?) I doubt any opinions are going to be changed here, so I’m moving on to my beconing bed. No point in beating said dead horse. Leave it to the courts.

Nite all.

Steve Vander Ark says: “[Dave Langford, editor of Ansible] and I are part of a subculture that lives off the creative work of others.”

I can’t beleive anyone would say such a thing! It displays a greed that’s unbeleivable. These guys are nothing but vultures! I finally got the last proof I needed to make up my mind about this case.

I agree Maven, and I will follow suit. I too am going to bed and getting some rest from all this crazy, frustrating stuff thats going on. Nighty night y’all.

LilyP, you know nothing about the condition of JKR’s notes, and calling them “confused and scattered” doesnt help your argument, it just makes it look like you’re grasping. It also doesnt really matter. She has her notes, and she also has information that was compiled by her OWN publishers.

As for these mistakes, I dont think I get it. What mistakes are there in the books? I’m afraid I’ve missed them. If it’s just the case of Hermione’s middle name changing from Jane to Jean, that’s kind of a thin argument.

Again, read most of these responses. The amount of work that SVA put into his lexicon has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether he holds any rights to publish! He created that site as a fan, with full knowledge that he cant publish (if you dont believe that, go into the previous news posts about this here on leaky, and find that email he sent out in, IIRC, 2005 where he TELLS someone that he cant publish because JKR retains the rights). He knows it himself, but seems to have changed his mind somewhere around the time that JKR’s representation said that JKR would not need his help to create /her/ encyclopedia.

It’s rather a no-brainer if you stand back and look at it. Do people want some encyclopedia from SVA or would they much rather have it from the source herself? Personally I would rather have it from JK, she created the world, only she can really fill in the details.

SVA is rather offensive in his idea that JK should not have complete control over her own intellectual property. She made up the world. Free speech does not mean someone can profit from someone else’s work, and indeed I think that JK is quite generous with her world with all the sites and fanfic and such. Not only does she allow them to be, but she visits them and answers questions and actually interacts with her fans. How many other authors can you name who do that?

I agree with Izzy:

All I’m saying is I’m on Jo’s side….

I’m completely with Jo on this issue.

For those who still need a HP resource, but are boycotting the HP Lexicon, use the Harry Potter Wiki: http://harrpotter.wikia.com

http://www.harrypotter.wikia.com *

Sorry about the typo.

Anyhow, the HPL is definitely copyright infringement.

Lilyp, did you read the court documents with the attached portions of the proposed Lexicon book? I would give you the link, but I don’t have it saved anymore. I’m sure someone else could post it for you. The website is useful, yes, and has cross-references and all kinds of links, but that is not what is going to be published. The proposed book was not something that I would ever want to read, or even use as a reference guide. There were no cross-references, no organization by subject/characters/spells, whatever, just alphabetical. And it was not done in the most logical and user-friendly manner, in my opinion.

As for his “WORK”, as I and others have said, it does not matter how many hours he put into it. He has NO right to have monetary compensation. You cannot go and mow your neighbor’s lawn or weed their garden unsolicited, and then ask them to pay you. That is not the way life works.

I am not a librarian, but I think that librarians would tell you that there is a lot more to being a librarian than organizing information. There was some discussion of reference books in the Lexicon thread in the Pottercast forum. DaisyRenee has been the librarian-in-residence there, and I’m sure she would be happy to answer any of your questions. Reference books require permissions (which SVA did not obtain), and I believe sometimes fees to publish their information. They are also not commercial books: ordinary people do not buy reference books; libraries, universities, schools, etc. do. They are not money-makers. And, they deal with real facts; facts which are public domain. HP is NOT public domain, so a reference book on copyrighted subject matter would be a copyright infringement.

And to think, Hermione goes into Magical Law. Wonder if she has to deal with wizarding copyrights? I think this debate could be never-ending. But let’s hope and pray this lawsuit ends quickly. Right now, I need a butterbeer and a hufflepuff to cheer me up.