what a great pottercast!! Loved this one… bit-by-bit was great aswel this week!! Umbridge is definitly a slytherin I mean she tried to use an unforgivable curse on harry and the way she treated muggle borns in DH was showing characteristics of Nazi ss men.. She was an evil toad!
“Umbridge is definitly a slytherin I mean she tried to use an unforgivable curse on harry and the way she treated muggle borns in DH was showing characteristics of Nazi ss men.. She was an evil toad!”
i give up. with an argument like that, i see there is no use in even trying. i only hope some of you have heard of the phrase, self fulfilling prophesy.
sincerly, a disillusioned Slytherin
self preserver, she did horrible things to please Fudge and to be in Fudge’s good graces, that is ambition true but I think that self preservation is a little bit of a partner to ambition, and yes her beliefs were mirrored by the new regime, so she was happy as can be, but the locket made me feel like she was lying so that was a little self preservation, I don’t believe that she actually believed that muggle borns stole magic (I don’t think she is full blood) just as she knew that Harry had to protect himself against dementors. She wanted to make herself look good, she was going to go with whatever the people in charge wanted. Fudge wanted Harry out of the way, and wanted the school to follow certain guide lines, she was going to see that is what happened. The new regime wanted muggle borns and half bloods and Harry gone. That is what she was going to do, but she didn’t have to underhanded in private this time around, she could do all these underhanded things in public. She wants to be well conected. I think she is very much like Slughorn in that nature, she has ambition to stay with whoever is in power. Staying with who ever is in power is a self preservation quality though. That doesn’t mean that she wasn’t at home, because she certainly was. I think that Slughorn isn’t evil just ambitious, but he is Slytherin, I think that Umbridge qualifies as Slytherin because of self preservation and ambition and to make it more perfect she is an evil toad.
If I followed the logic a lot of you are using, I could make a case for Slytherin not being a Slytherin! She’s a Slytherin.
I just finished listening, my God, I was literally CRYING over the fuzzy hats thing. And Frak literally laughing his head off just did NOT help me control my laughter. Gosh, that was GOOD! I’d love an episode with both Frak and John, gosh, it’d be the limit!!
About Umbridge, frankly, I never thought she was at Hogwarts, I don’t know why, but as someone mentioned in the thread before, I thought she was home-schooled. But if she was at Hogwarts, I do think she was a Slytherin. Maybe it’s just that inherent thing we have that all nasty people are Slytherins, even though Wormtail was a glaring exception. But she does want power, and goes wherever the power is. Isn’t that characterisitc of Slytherin? She’s not brave enough for Gryffindor, no, can’t believe that, and nor is she smart. Cunning,yes but not smart. No, not a Ravenclaw. She’s definitely not loyal, considering how in OotP she first shows loyalty to Fudge and keeps going “The Minister feels…” all the time and then in DH she shifts loyalty and totally changes her agenda,which shows she’s ready to do anything to stay in power. I love this Sorting Series, and I’m curious about Trelawney now.
Great work guys!
Siyrean, I agree with you wholeheartedly! It upsets me that Slytherin is synonymous to “evil” and “disgusting” for many people. But I have to repeat what I have already said – JKR created this prejudice herself. Sure, there are evil people in the books who are not Slytherins (Wormtail is the most glaring example, along with some people who are not exactly evil, but act in an unpleasant way or do something evil due to circumstances, like Zacharias Smith (Hufflepuff), or Marietta Edgecombe (Ravenclaw)). But there are no good people in Slytherin! Not a single person who can be called good without a dozen but’s…
OK, JKR tried to make Slytherin as a house more likeable, when Harry tells Albus Severus not to be afraid to be sorted into Slytherin. But this is not enough to make up for all the Death Eaters, or for Slytherins in Harry’s year (who are ALL described as disgusting – how cool is that? o.O), or for Voldemort himself :(((
I totally agree with everything Siyrean had to say. I hate how Slytherins are immediately pigeonholed into this “evil” characterization.
Using an unforgivable curse DOES NOT equal Slytherin. Harry used the Cruciatus and Imperius curses in DH.
Just because she sided with Fudge and the Ministry in OOTP doesn’t mean she was following where the power was and that she’s power hungry. I honestly believe she was doing her job and really wanted to maintain the order imposed by the ministry (what, I believe, is a very Ravenclaw attribute). Obviously, she hates muggleborns and half-breeds and, I guess, that’s what made her really good at what she did, and is why we all hate her.
Didn’t Seamus Finnigan think Harry was a liar because he and his mother believed the Ministry over Harry and Dumbledore? Even though Seamus ended up changing his mind, his mother still hadn’t at that point (remember, he told Harry he was trying to convince his mother), so does that make Seamus’ mother a Slytherin? No, she’s merely a person who accepted whatever the general authority had to say.
Oh, and to add about the actual PotterCast: I was listening to it while during daily commute on the public bus, and I’m 100% positive that my fellow busriders must have thought I was INSANE for having this HUGE grin on my face while listening to Frak’s hilarious laughter. Reminded me a bit of myself, actually ;). I was thisclose to bursting out laughing right there on the bus, hehehe.
I see Umbridge as Slytherin, not because she’s evil and all evil people come from that house but because so many Slytherins have a tendency towards self-preservation. This quality, taken so far as to hurt others to advance/protect oneself, is what leads Slytherins especially towards the path of evil. I see that self-preservation tendency in Umbridge, with her backing up whoever she thinks will win, refusing to risk her neck for loyalty, even to the ministry (definitely not Hufflepuff).
About Ravenclaws, just because they are the “smart” house doesn’t mean they’re by the books. Luna and Xeno prove that, along with the door-nocker on the Ravenclaws’ door which asks questions that don’t have a right or wrong answer and the important thing is having an answer that is “well reasoned.” That doesn’t mean Umbridge couldn’t be Ravenclaw, but I don’t se her by the books thing as a valid reason.
How come no one sees Gryffindore as a possible house? After all, Wormtail was one and he backed whoever he thought would be the winner.
To carlye, yes, you could say they were just following the rules. That’s what historians think, at least of those Germans who were FOLLOWING the Nazi rule. That’s how they got to be so powerful; they had good, law-abiding citizens seeking to abide by the new law. Of course, I’m not in any way condoning that behavior. It’s sad when people forget the purpose of laws and government and simply assume that they are right or assume that nothing can be done. We should all be wary of the kinds of laws our leaders make. “Constant vigilance!”
Thanks to elkmaria, I agree!
Wow! I thought I was the only one that thought the the Scribby-ers needed to drop the script! Sure, they may have some neat info, but its the flow from one person to the other, when the go, “What do you think about that?” “WELL Nicole, I think that…” They always emphasize these words like “Yes” “Well” and “I” that gives away the scriptedness of it. I dont mean to gang up on them or anything, but “Scribby 5” should be changed to “Scripty 5”
Anne and Siyrean have very well-reasoned comments. I agree with them. Also, about the “by the books” thing, I don’t see Luna and Xeno as the norm in the Ravenclaw house, though that is a very valid and logical line of thought. I always saw Ravenclaws as people like Hermione without the boldness and bravery that are Gryffindor qualities. I think Hermione could have fit into the Ravenclaw house just fine. I think that because she is so very well read and studious. Ravenclaws are know for their knowledge as well as their logic and reasoning. I don’t think Umbridge was an idiot; I think she was “book-smart”. Perhaps she wasn’t very good at applying her knowlege; that doesn’t mean that she was stupid. Nor does it automatically disqualify her from being in the Ravenclaw house.
By the way, I don’t think that Umbridge had to be a Ravenclaw. I think that she is more likely a Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff (my first impression) than anything else, but she could certainly fit into any house. I do think it would be a shame if she were just another Slytherin bad guy. Her character would be so much richer if she weren’t. I’m also glad that JKR didn’t detail every single character. I like being able to dicuss the details with others and then make up my own mind. Thanks for the stimulating discussion guys!
Ok, for all the nay sayers, answer me this, how would a Hufflepuff that had a pure blood agenda act in the same situation?
How would a Ravenclaw act? or a Gryffindor? and don’t tell me they simply wouldn’t be pureblood biased, we have proof otherwise. So honestly, just think about it, how would a prejudaced Hufflepuff/Ravenclaw/Gryfindor act?
I dis agree. I think Umbridge did come from Slytherin. She does change rules and cheat. Remember-she let loose the dementors on Harry, then acted as though she didn’t.
Love Frak…. but I miss John too much :P