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BRING BACK J. WILLIAMS!

Bandersnatch:

It’s interesting you’ve mentioned reading a PoA script online. Normally those things are very classified and tough to get to. (Right now I’m actually looking for a libretto for Spamalot and there is NONE to be found, which breaks my heart…) I’d be interested to read it myself, can you tell me where? Also, not to cast total doubt over your comment, but online scripts of things cannot always be trusted unless its from a reputable site. First hand script copies (that is, copies before editing/change) are things that, usually, only the Library of Congress (or something like it) would have.

And yes, I know, that rant was a little chaotic, and very mis-spelled. But I do feel very strongly about the books and the characters, thus the rant.

Whether or not Hermione was “super-ed up” in script, it cannot be denied that the bounty of wonderful lines for Ron (and Dumbledore) were passed to her for no real reason other than because Kloves has noted she’s his favourite character, his go-to girl when he can’t figure out where to fit a line (despite the fact that that line was said in a book by a different character.) This happened way back with CoS and continued all the way through GoF. The worst instance I can think of is in PoA, when Hermione says Ron’s line “If you want to kill Harry, you’ll have to kill us too.” Ron is meant to say that. Broken leg and all. He’s not meant to whimper—the share of support is BETWEEN the two, not solely on Hermione’s shoulders.

I mostly just feel that, despite all the out of character-ness, there is no reason, NO reason at all, for lines from one character to be blatantly given to another, especially when the appropriate character is there within the scene. If he does that, he’s not truly paying homage to JK’s work, but saying, “I think Hermione should have said this, not Ron.”

I mean, just look at Lord of the Rings. It is widely agreed to be one of the best renditions of book to film ever made; I would personally have to agree. They were not perfect, they did change Faramir’s character slightly (but within that they still managed to capture his essence and his heart). The changes to Ron and Hermione have left all that out. Ron is wimpering and cowardly, not brave and loyal as he is in the books. Hermione is all-conquering and confident, not insecure (which she is, deep down, which is why she over-compensates with knowledge, even JKR has said so) and stressed. I adore to no end book-Hermione; she is endearing and powerful in her humanity. I adore book-Ron for the same reasons. I find that I just don’t care for their portrayal in the movies (with the exeption of OotP), whether that be writer’s fault or director’s fault, or even actor’s fault.

Back to Lord of the Rings: they had at least four writers at one time working on a way to take the book and translate it to screen, honor the writer, and honor the fans. For a movie as big as Harry Potter, I feel that the fans were not honored at all.

My bottom line is: Kloves sure as hell isn’t helping the movie situation. Goldenburg, or heck, a collaboration between the two, which is really all I wanted, would have been better.

“Ron is wimpering and cowardly, not brave and loyal as he is in the books. Hermione is all-conquering and confident, not insecure (which she is, deep down, which is why she over-compensates with knowledge, even JKR has said so) and stressed. I adore to no end book-Hermione; she is endearing and powerful in her humanity. I adore book-Ron for the same reasons.”

That’s a pretty perfect summary. Though I don’t have such strong feelings as you because I love the films and they led me to the books not the other way round, Ron’s ‘wimpering’ is starting to annoy me when I rewatch the films. I do really hope they get Hermione’s softness into DH, because that’s when I really fell in love with her book character and I will be disappointed if it doesn’t come across in the film. She is very insecure and her knowledge acts as her comforter, plus she also has a weakness, which is that she can’t do intuitive wizard thinking when under pressure (Harry’s strength).

I think the part when they arrive at Grimmauld Place and encounter ‘dust Dumbledore’ is the most telling summary about their three characters. Harry is almost unphased and reacts calmly and instinctively, Hermione is cowering in terror, and Ron is a little shaky but shields her. Then Hermione, once she’s calmed down, uses her knowledge to test whether anyone’s there.

Thats alil bit good news but the thing that i dont like about it is the times they r coming out. What im meaning is there is like a 6 month waiting time between part 1 & part 2 which means part 1 will be on DVD by time part 2 comes out to the movies. Im happy that they choice to make 2 parts that way the Final Battle will be like an hour or more long. :)

For people worrying that Kloves won’t do a good job on DH… now that there’s two DH films, he’s going to have to step it up in terms of adapting the book. Now people are expecting Ron to stab the locket (which will happen, because it’s necessary to Ron’s return and making amends) and having Hermione tortured at the Malfoys’ by Bellatrix, etc.. Plus, David Yates is directing these films and he’ll have input in the scripts.

I think some fans are overreacting to this news. Aside from these minor complaints about characters given other characters’ lines, I think Kloves has done a fine job with the Potter films. Goldenberg was much better in staying true to the characters and the overall story of OOTP, I’d wish he and Kloves would co-write the DH scripts rather than Kloves flying solo.

I would just like to point out that in ALL cases, JKR has had input and has been involved in the scripting process, and DH is no exception. She buys into the idea and that is what is important. If she had said “absolutely NO way”, then I would be concerned if the movie folks went ahead with their own plans.

Like an earlier poster, I came to the books because of the movies, and yes, there are plotlines and dialogue and a whole host of other things that have been changed or eliminated. But in my view, the books and movies have ALWAYS been different “animals” and should be. Changes are not an issue, and in fact, if things are missing that render the products “unclear”, most folks who are intersted WILL go back and read the book (more on this in a moment) to better understand!!

Let me illustrate an interesting point that, in my humble opinion, speaks to the issue of LOTR and HP and why the two cannot really be compared in terms of their transfer from the written word to the visually stunning renditions on screen (and explains a bit why I have no problem with this turn of events).

If you think about Tolkein and the way he wrote LOTR, you might recall that he spends what I, at least, consider to be an inordinate amount of time on description. He describes the landscape, the clothing, the textures and colours and a myriad of other items and scenes in exquisite detail (excricuating detail, some would say, but please don’t get me wrong, I adore the LOTR Trilogy)). So you can capture a hundred pages of description in a 60 second film scene. The visual impact is such that you are so overwhelmend by the accuracy of the scene, that you overlook, or even forgive other inaccuracies, or, as was the case for me, you look at the scene on screen, and realize in an instant, because this is exactly how YOU pictured it, then everything else is credible!

It is harder to do that with HP, because it is the narrative that makes them so good. And even so, MANY people I spoke to didn’t think that LOTR was an accuraute depiction of what the books described.

I take away from this 2 things; first, it is so important to remember that the books and corresponding films are 2 different tellings of the same story, and as such, rely on capturing the audience in different ways; and, second, obviously everyone will see this in their own way, but I find it interesting that all the movies made lots of money, even the “worst”, and this despite all the commentary that this or that was terrible or bad. People still go, despite the “reviews” to see movies they want to see and will continue to do so, no matter who says what. You can even read this in the preceeding posts from folks saying they don’t like this, that or the other, but that they will be right up there on opening day to try and see the movies! I love it.

If I had to choose what it MY idea of the most important aspect of this whole phenomenon, it is that a movie can generate so much interest and discussion that people who would NEVER have even lifted a book to exercise their arms have lifted books (NOT just the HP ones) in ever-increasing numbers, and discovered for the themselves the differences between the written and the visual stories.

Now THAT is awesome, my friends.

At least in my humble opinion.

M.

Morton, you are very right.

And I know JKR supports them. I honestly think she’s just so damn glad to be getting so many people to read, and to be getting so many people interested in her tale, and I cannot blame her. In that aspect, the movies are indeed wonderful things.

And yes, dear Tolkien, with his vast descriptions… sigh. But being the total nerd I am, I have watched just about every extra feature on my DVDs and can say that the writers had a discussion for about 3 weeks( I think it was) on how to open up the first movie, on that first paragraph for Galadriel alone. I just think that that kind of devotion and patience should be taken with the Potter books, for they are no less loved. WB has this rush to get the movies out b/c, yes, the kids are aging, and I think in the back of their minds there is a fear that the fandom will fade. Which I know we can all agree it absolutely ridiculous.

The attention paid to the details and descriptions in LotR should be paid here to the characters, which are the largest part of the HP whole.

I suppose what it comes down to is what’s most important to you, the story or the characters? For me, it is always the people, and because I have been in love with Ron and Hermione since I was 11, it cuts to the heart to see them rendered so.

But I have faith in Yates. And I am grateful and conscious of the great wonder it is to have so many people reading and loving these books, no matter how they came across them.

I don’t see the point in making us wait so long for the second half of book 7. I think if anything it should come out within at least 6 months after the first one.