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... He had trouble reading SS? What kind of judge is this? If he wants a reference book he should give the win to Jo so that she can start writing the encyclopedia.
“Not everyone is into fantasy; not everyone is even into fiction. My father rarely reads fiction. I can easily see him being confused by the Harry Potter books.”
And, while names like Rubeus Hagrid and Bathilda Bagshot may sound ridiculous to him, legal terms like “habeas corpus” and “stare decisis” sound pretty silly if you haven’t spent years trying to understand them in their proper context. (Actually, “habeas corpus” could almost be a spell….)
No offense, Elizabeth, but I’ve always thought that legal people used Latin terms like that in order to make the language they spoke into something exclusive and elite. Only now has it occurred to me that there are elements of fantasy fiction that serve, if only unintentionally, the same purpose—it’s clear who’s “in” and who is “out.”
I don’t get it. I don’t understand why the quality or utility of the Lexicon is relevant. I would think the entire case (as the Wall Street Journal) has pointed out revolves around whether or not its multiple references to JKR’s work fall under Fair Use. Whether the books are simple or complex has no bearing, I would think. The amount of the books that is referenced in the Lexicon does have bearing.
In the end, this will be a very long, drawn out case about what constitutes a reference book that is protected under Fair Use Doctrine.
“The amount of the books that is referenced in the Lexicon does have bearing.”
Well, the American Scholastic hardcover editions of Harry Potter run over 4,000 pages put together. If SVA’s Harry Potter reference is anywhere near that length, Jo need not worry about anyone wanting to read it.
What’s more, peading Steve VanderArk’s summary of the climax of Deathly Hallows cannot possibly have the same empotional impact as reading it on the page, and this is actually a very imoortant point in RDR’s favor. Copyright law looks down on stealing the “heart” of someone’s work, and there’s no way the Lexicon could do that. When the facts of Harry Potter are taken out of a literary context and changed into a reference work, they stop being a story and become simply data.
So the amount of Harry Potter text he used, both qualitatively and quantitatively, when measured against the whole, can’t be that substantial.
And, while names like Rubeus Hagrid and Bathilda Bagshot may sound ridiculous to him, legal terms like “habeas corpus” and “stare decisis” sound pretty silly if you haven’t spent years trying to understand them in their proper context. (Actually, “habeas corpus” could almost be a spell….)
Trosa, those are only the ones we inflict on the public! My favorites are the ones we keep mostly to ourselves. Like res ipsa loquitur, which means (quite amusingly) “the thing speaks for itself.” :)
Actually, “habeas corpus” could almost be a spell….)
It is. When invoked correctly, a defendant disappears from jail and reappears back on the street to menace the public. :)
No offense, Elizabeth, but I’ve always thought that legal people used Latin terms like that in order to make the language they spoke into something exclusive and elite.
That’s part of it. The other part is that we’re all much, much too lazy to translate concepts we stole from the Romans into English. :)
But I’ll maintain to my dying day that we’re not as bad as doctors. There needs to be a class in law school on how to read a medical chart and doctor’s notes. You’ll spend an hour puzzling over some report full of a bizarre and alien lingo, only to realize that what the doctor is actually saying is that the victim’s wrist is broken. There was a trial where a doctor was on the stand, testifying about the victim’s injuries; the prosecutor kept trying to get the doctor to speak in regular English, and the doctor continually slipped back into medicalese. Finally, the prosecutor started asking leading questions – “So that means she broke her arm in three places?”, and the defense lawyer objected. The judge overruled the objection, saying, in exasperation, that some leading was apparently necessary. :)
“People calling it an overall comment on the case are flatly deceiving, or taking the simple way out of the thought process that goes into writing one of those stories. Posted by Melissa on April 17, 2008 @ 01:28 PM”
I agree with you, Melissa. I want to point out to everyone that I was not the one making that comparison or comment, I merely quoted the article and gave my own opinion of what was said in it. I did not write the thing.
And to Elizabeth and anyone else, just to be clear, I was not inferring that the judge is stupid. I simply gave an opinion based on the direct quotes in the articles linked on this page. I do have a hard time believing that anyone as educated as the judge clearly is had trouble getting through the first half of PS/SS, the simplest of the 7 books which was written for young children, because of a few odd sounding names/spells. Maybe the truth is that it just didn’t interest him so he didn’t pay close enough attention to it, but he didn’t want to say so in front of Jo. Whatever, that does not really matter. Without calling his intelligence into question, I do still find it a worrying statement ONLY insomuch as I personally am firmly on the side of Jo and WB and this seems to me to say that the judge is leaning the other way because he does “see a benefit” to having a book like SVA’s around. Fine, that is what he is there for, to judge, not to agree with me. That doesn’t mean that I have to like it.
I think the idea is if its useful to just have a comprehensive dictionary to help people keep track of spells/people/etc then that adds to RDR’s fair use case. (Not a lawyer! I could be wrong about this)
I will say that when I was 8 or 9 and read Lord of the Rings for the first time, I ended up giving up half way through the last book because I couldn’t remember who the various characters popping up were. I certainly would have liked a lexicon at that point – no need for commentary – just remind me of who this guy is again! :)
Some of the points that WB/JKR have made are a little silly in my opinion. The Lexicon sales hurting JKR’s encyclopedia? Can anyone honestly say that because someone bought a companion book they wouldn’t buy an original work with new information from JKR? Generally if someone is a big enough fan to buy a companion book (which I never have), my guess if they would be there with bells on for the midnight launch.
I know that quality is not relevant, but citing inaccurate sources can play havoc on a research paper (if you’re studying children’s literature or going to library school this would be important). There have been occasions that I have consulted SVA’s website only to find out later that his conjecture was off the mark.
Judge Patterson is a seasoned and respected member of the bench. I am sure he will do his utmost to interpret the law as it applies. I’m just as certain that this won’t end here or soon.
No matter what the outcome, I will wait for the Scottish book as it will be the most factual representation.
the judges personal feelings toward Jo’s work and the fact he had trouble with some of the names most likely would not figure into legalites on trial here, as for his say a book like SVa’s would be helpful, I hope thats not a tip off to which way he is leaning towards going inthe case, admitted a HP encyclopedia ( the Sottish Book not SVA’s Trash) would be helpful in that respect.
If the judge thinks he would have read ‘HP’ easier with an encyclopaedia like the Lexicon, he’s only part of a tiny minority: how many millions of children haven’t read this book and fully understood it???
Isn’t this something like prejudice? His taste should not matter. It’s not about whether he liked the book or not.
I hope if the book is published nobody buys it. Its wrong, and its illegal. Not to mention it might hurt the Scottish Book, which we are all dying for. If this really does hurt it I’m going to be really pissed.
He wore a dashing, plumed hat on his long curly hair, and a tunic with a ruff, which concealed the fact that his neck was almost completely severed. He was pale as smoke, and Harry could see right through him to the dark sky and torrential rain outside.
And, while names like Rubeus Hagrid and Bathilda Bagshot may sound ridiculous to him, legal terms like “habeas corpus” and “stare decisis” sound pretty silly if you haven’t spent years trying to understand them in their proper context. (Actually, “habeas corpus” could almost be a spell….)
I don’t think the Judge is stupid at all, I’m saying he should think out-side the box a little…Thats all…