Beware that our comments may contain spoilers for the seventh and final Harry Potter book!
Don’t know so much about it. I may be biased, but I’m for Jo, either way!
(Should’ve marked the door out! Now I can’t get back to tell anyone this is here!) I hate being alone when I can’t speak on the topic.
Guys!! Over here!!
Rats! Let me try the other door…
I think JKR and WB. Taking someone’s work is taking someone’s work, no matter how you slice and package it.
But, really, I don’t care who “wins” as long as it’s a reasonable, logical outcome.
Well, it’s a complicated issue and I can’t make up my mind. I do see the value in organizing/summarizing/commenting etc. Now the poor quality is not a reason to stop publication – it’s up to publisher to decide whether or not it’s worth paper it’s printed on , and up to customers to decide whether or not they want to pay money for it. I know I wouldn’t want to buy it.
But there has to be added value in the comments, analysis etc. Lexicon (based on the information on the website) hardly more the short summary with little of original work added. So where lies that line between the valid analysys and summary of author’s work pretending to be analysys hard to say.
Asti, I love that your DS likes Sound of Music! (Not that it can’t be a guy-movie, it’s just that I wonder how many will admit to it.) Mine likes it too. It was the first movie he ever saw, and he saw it before came to the US from the Philippines at 5 yrs. old. He really gets into it. It’s one of the few even vaguely chick-flicks that he’ll watch with me. We like the dancing too! (Someday… lessons for us!) Oh, and the music, of course! “How do you solve a problem like Maria?”, My Favorite Things, Goodnight, ’...Sixteen going on Seventeen…’, Do-Re-Mi, The Hills are Alive… you can’t top it!!! (Oh, and the song Maria and the Captain sing with each other when they admit they love each other… sigh!)
Korey, hang in there, and don’t give up hope! I recently lost 30 lbs., and was afraid (ok, and didn’t have the money) to go out an get new clothes right away at 15, and I knew I wasn’t done). Then I went to a place (American Eagle Outfitters) that had smaller, “younger” clothes than I would’ve looked at before. The sizes I fit into were smaller than I would’ve thought, and I loved them. (Couldn’t wear the low, low pants though… not ready for that extreme!) I also tried new brands/styles, and found the Levi’s 511 fit just right. Oddly enough, different brands have me in a size 10 or a size 6. (I had to buy the size 6 just because I could for once, but I wouldn’t swear it wasn’t mis-marked.)
Sorry, don’t mean to get off topic so soon. (Just following up from the last poll.) I’m just not good with conflict, so I avoid it, and stick with Jo. She’s a ‘kindred spirit’ as Anne of Green Gables would say.
I think it should be JKR/WB, even though it does seem to be less clear cut than us fans would like it to be.
It just seems that the Lexicon book, assuming it is basically the website (since RDR told JKR/WB to click “print”!!), is really just lifting bits and pieces of the books. There isn’t that much analysis on the website, and I can’t tell if even that analysis will be in the books. I somewhat doubt that it is, since RDR hasn’t even tried to mention that as a mitigating factor. This surprises me since that is the saving grace of the other analysis books that haven’t been challenged by JKR.
I do feel that if JKR/WB settle, they should stick to the idea that there shouldn’t be publication of the book.
BTW Mollywobbles way to be first! :)
Looking forward to the discussion here . . .
Have a good night everyone!
Oops, errant “s” in that 2nd paragraph, only meant the one “book” that SVA is attempting to publish.
Thank you, Huff! It really was weird though, to get here first. Did I apparate wrong? :) (Wait how many ‘d’s were there again? Maybe I forgot ‘destination’!)
I do like HP analysis books, (although I haven’t read any since the series finished, so they were all prediction-type books). I had fun listening to those authors, too, and referencing Potter info on the sites. They were awesome.
I just adore Jo’s work, though, and a writer has a right to retain ‘ownership’ of his/her characters and ideas, too, I think. Beyond that, my life’s too full of it’s own challenges and conflicts to determine others. I just want everyone to get along in our peaceful Potterverse, wonderful place that it is!
BTW everyone here is the link to the previous poll’s comments. Sorry to take your usual job away, Ella, but I was wondering. . . to all the regulars. . .
Since this topic is of great interest to pretty much anyone who visits Leaky, and is bound to attract quite a few people who want to comment. . .
I suggest that we keep the more personal and off-topic stuff to our other website, or even to the comments page of the previous poll for the next several pages/days.
Not only would this be good to facilitate discussion of a very important topic, but I suspect it would decrease us being visited by Trolls.
I hope I’m not about to be flamed by my own community but I don’t think you all would do that. . . :)
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/3/13/where-should-deathly-hallows-part-one-end/text_comments/150
And since it looks like I am writing this in response to the post from Mollywobbles above, I want to make clear that it isn’t. It is merely based on our experience from past polls.
Mollywobbles I haven’t read any of the HP analysis books either; I browsed thru that section a while back at the bookstore, but they looked interesting and were drawing parallels to known historical events or other belief systems.
I think someone on the main page was trying to compare the Lexicon book to Sparks/Cliffs Notes, but those series actually do have quite a bit of analysis. That is why students like them and teachers don’t, in terms of essay writing. If the Notes series had just a list of characters and locations, they would be quite useless for coming up with themes to write an essay/paper about.
How pitiful is that? I’m alone on two different polls!
I took a shower today, guys, really!
Oops, spoke too slowly… no one was here when I typed, you just appeared when I posted.
I was still at the old one..
Well I voted RDR, but I really don’t care. I would like to have a book like that. Now, if it were my series and some guy wanted to publish an encyclopedia of my books I would say go ahead as long as I can go through it and correct what is wrong.
LOL Mollywobbles, I’m at the other poll.
But I do need to shower. . .
Sorry, I thought I was alone here in the middle of everyone else’s night. Good thinking. I’ll behave now.
No no no Mollywobbles it really wasn’t directed at you! sigh
Ella interesting thought about the Lexicon. I can see how the cross-referencing would be helpful, since there are so many characters and locations, and non-conventional words/spells in the books.
But that’s what the website does. While I am all for the website, which I, too, have used, I can understand JKR drawing a line at the publication of a book. Not to sound money-grubbing, since that is only a small reason in JKR’s eyes – and we fans know that, but making a profit off someone else’s work rubs me the wrong way.
There’s also the immense hypocrisy that SVA puts copyright on every last page of his website, and even disabled the “right mouse button” capability so that one can’t copy/paste stuff, and then trying to do just that to JKR.
I think JKR has already been remarkably generous about the activities on the web. A more cynical person could substitute “lax” for “generous” in that sentence. And we wouldn’t want her to feel the need to clamp down on the websites. ;)
:) Hi Won_Two!
I’m behaving here, gabbing there!
As do I, Won_Two. While I think the community of regulars is great, I can understand some degree of confusion when someone else comes here and sees us discussing non-poll, or non-HP, topics. Though there’s really no need to be mean about it.
But I am merely trying to forestall the appearance of said Trolls. Plus, I’m curious what others think.
Your comment “I say Live it, or live with it!” is interesting. . . care to expand a bit?
I’m not sure, I want to see eactly how tis plays out in court. ;)
It’s late and I just took a pain pill. ;)
Goodnight all. ;)
LOL I just reread my post and it sounds like money-grubbing might even be a tiny reason for JKR to do this. Sorry, didn’t mean that!
I don’t think she’s money-grubbing at all, seeing as she has declared all profits will go to charity from the Scottish Book.
But I still stand by the rest of that post! LOL!
Goodnight everyone, happy discussing!
Live it, or Live with it… is an old 1970’s sound byte.. Basically, it meant you have the choice to accept whatever is going on… OR, conversely, you have to “Live with it” and put up with the crap you don’t like…
Hi there Molly… pleez excuse my late hello… I am sooo sleepy!!! lol lol
Either way – both have good points. I can’t judge.
Goodnight!
Evening, guys! I am all caught up on the last one.
OK, I have obviously said this before, but I am totally for Jo/WB winning this case. In my opinion Steve has done nothing but copy and paste Jo’s work. Why on earth should he be allowed to publish and make money off of that? Jo has every right to protect her world and characters. She worked her butt off for 17 years to bring us Harry and his whole story. She slaved and sweated and suffered over it all. HP would not exist in any way, shape or form but for her.
I have no problem with companion books that add commentary, analysis or predictions (before DH came out) and I have many of them. I scribbled all over them arguing where I thought they were wrong, starring where I thought they were right, making corrections to mistakes they made, etc. It was an interactive experience and I got a lot of insight out of them, a lot like what I get from you all when we discuss and dissect points in the books ourselves. SVA is not bringing that to his “book.” It is 90% plagiarism, pure and simple, and that is against the law. RDR surely knows this. I think they have been hoping for a monetary settlement all along, betting that Jo and WB would want to avoid a court case and now they are stuck. I hope Jo does not settle. They should have to pay for putting her through this for such a specious argument.
Also, as an aspiring writer myself, I would be furious if I managed through some miracle to be published after years of research and hard work and some person decided to do this to me. Just because he is a “fan” does not give him ownership of her work. Fan fiction online is different, companion books that do the work to add the necessary analysis, etc., are different. When I buy an encyclopedia of HP I want none other than the Scottish Book, which Jo may not even write now because of all this. THAT is the most heartbreaking thing of all. SVA may have cost us true fans a seriously valuable and enjoyable work from Jo herself, and has caused her untold trouble and anguish. It is just not right.
Hmm, “specious” is not really the word I was going for there.. More like “ridiculous” but I wanted something a bit more elegant than that. Where IS my thesaurus? :)
Morning all! Grey and cold again:( I have caught up on the previous poll.
I have always felt unhappy about books that comment on best sellers; it is so much easier to pick spots off someone else’s work than create your own. I think jumping on the bandwagon is just a cheap way of getting published. I have used the Lexicon quite a bit since I discovered it about eighteen months ago and it has been a useful tool on the computer. Not all the work was done by the known editors, users of the Lexicon often used to come up with corrections or suggestions in the Whats New section.
There is one aspect of the Lexicon that has a downside to it, in my opinion. Jo gave us mysteries in every book, slowly revealing important details relevant to the whole work, and it was fun grappling with the various clues and developments and is probably why fansites became so popular. It wasn’t until the scramble to update after Deathly Hallows that I realised that anyone who read the Lexicon when they were only in the early stages of the series would come across future events entered under the Character sections and Spell sections and elsewhere simply because the Lexicon covered the whole series. A lot of the pleasure would be lost if there were no surprises, shocks or twists to be discovered. Any younger HP fan wanting to initiate their future children into the delights they enjoyed would be advised to steer clear of the Lexicon in whatever form to avoid anticlimax.
Good Morning Everybody & Leaky!!!!!!!!!
I WENT WITH JKR AND WB!!!!!!!!
This is going to be a beautiful Saturday here, sun just shinning away and about 75 degrees, this is my kind of weather.
Graymayne, I am sorry the weather is not so great there I will send a spell your way to clear the weather up, and give you a beautiful sunny and warm day!!!!!!!
Graymayne
I agree that new readers should avoid any of the dictionaries, including the Scottish Book, like the plague unless they are formatted in such a way as to make information on each book exclusive, that you would actually have to knowingly look at information from a later book, thus spoiling yourself on purpose.
I really wish this had not become so ugly. SVA is obviously using 90% or more of SOMEONE ELSE’S work but I do see that the organization of the material into dictionary form did take some effort. I just don’t know that it was enough effort to entitle him to walk off with JKR’s work and profits and call them his own.
It is too bad this has happened. I believe JKR actually used to see value it what he has done, that sometimes she consulted the Lexicon online while writing, instead of carrying copies of her books around with her as reference. Or am I getting that wrong?
It would have been much nicer if they could have decided to collaborate on the Scottish Book and that this had never happened. Wouldn’t we have been thrilled if a fan had been asked to collaborate with JKR on the encyclopedia? Unfortunately, SVA has proven himself to be untrustworthy and grasping. So, I expect that is an end to that.
A small personal note…. It never quit raining and the top never came down. Now it is gone.
Mollywobbles, CONGRATS ON BEING THE FIRST TO POST IN OUR LEAKY COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lady Hawke, so glad to see your post!!!!!!!!!
Lady Hawke, that is very deep thinking, this early in the morning!!!!! I am not usually an early bird, unless it is Mon – Fri, and that is because I have to be!!!!!!!! I agree about the collaborating, and you are correct, it certainly would have been nicer!!!!!!!
Not even close to being first!
Congratulations to Mollywobbles.
JKR owns the characters, created them and has 100% rights to all of them. Plagerism is against the law. Why should he get to LEACH of her work? Just because he is a supposedly great “fan”. Give me a break.
Healing and soothing charms for our JKR so that she does not end up disgusted with our legal system.
LadyHawke – aawww :( darn mother nature!
Mistic Willow – We are trying to be quiet during the first few pages of the NEW POLL.
Huff is right, this way we can keep posting here later. This poll is bound to attract a lot of posters because it is HOT subject.
Going to CC.^
Mistic Willow – We are trying to be quiet during the first few pages of the NEW POLL.
Huff is right, this way we can keep posting here later. This poll is bound to attract a lot of posters because it is a HOT subject.
Going to CC.
sorry I posted twice, I wanted to whisper and my format got messed up,
off to CC.
The results of this poll (at the moment 77% to 15%) make me very proud to be a part of this fandom.
Good morning!
Lady Hawke, sorry to here about rain…
Lady Hawke wrote: ‘It would have been much nicer if they could have decided to collaborate on the Scottish Book’.Honestly I don’t see how it could happen – these are Jo’s characters, Jo’s world and I don’t see what’s value Steve could bring in…
I do see value in reference guides but I feel that such a guide needs author’s approval for publishing; of course I don’t know copyright law, it’s just seems fair
It a frosty morning here; I live in the lower area, I’m sure there is snow a bit higher up – I didn’t think it could happen here
Lemon, I believe you’re right that they (publisher) were hoping for settlement, at least as plan B. They knew it’s a murky area and Jo would have hard time in the court.
On the other subject, remember how Bellatrix said: “Saying words is not enough – you have to mean it”
I am with Jo on this one 100%... MY GOSH! I just posted on topic… Will wonders never cease?
(Are we now at a loss for words when trying to stay on topic?)
It is sort of like having a pink elephant in a room and you aren’t supposed to talk about it. Everything you want to say is about the pink elephant. So, all your other comments are rudimentary at best. In this case our pink elephant is every other topic under the sun.
I fear that if Jo and WB win, that they will become more strict with the copyright laws. So if they win, are we still going to be able to make fan videos or other things? I hope that Jo wins, but I don’t want a huge shut down of the lexicon or stricter copyright rules…
New Haven airport check in. I see that we have a new poll – I haven’t caught up on the last one yet. I ended up buying a new camera yesterday. Its fun, but was $200 I wasn’t thrilled to spend yesterday. Unfortunately it wasn’t really an option as I HAD to have a camera for my research. Le sigh.
Cordelia, if you’re around, I do have a stop-over in Philly, but only for like an hour and a half or something. I don’t know what the liklihood of meeting up is. :( Maybe I’ll get out here again at some point…
Ok, maybe I’ll think about the poll question now…
Please post more on topic comments.
I think if we wait until it goes to a second page all bets are off and we can return to normal.
