Beware that our comments may contain spoilers for the seventh and final Harry Potter book!
Hi Everyone!
Hmmm, the comments are not flying like I thought they would be. Interesting. Perhaps everyone has finished venting on the main page? Or is this another quiet weekend on Leaky? Still, I think it’s worth it. I went back to the previous poll (about when DH part 1 should end) and on the first page, there were 20/50 posts on the topic, not including spliched answers. So far on this page, 26/46 are about the poll topic. So there’s a slight increase. . . .hmmmm.
Lady Hawke interesting analogy. But my suggestion was just that – a suggestion. I’m just trying to allow others to post their thoughts and avoid some of the exceedingly nasty Trolls that showed up for the last poll. Though one has acquitted him/herself very nicely!! :)
In terms of SVA and JKR collaborating, one of the pre-trial emails that was released showed that SVA tried to contact JKR to collaborate on the encyclopedia, and thru her literary agent, she said no. I agree with her. She knows her world better than anyone and doesn’t need someone else to tell her what went on in it.
But I agree with you that should SVA’s book be published, no true HP fan should buy it!!
JKR said on the stand that she had referred to the Lexicon once or twice, but phrased it so as to sound she did it just to ensure it was worthy of the Fan Site Award.
Margo interesting idea about getting the author’s approval for reference guides. I wonder if JKR, or someone in her literary agent’s office, has been doing that for all the others.
Graymayne that’s a good point about the Lexicon being spoiler filled, though I guess most reference books are that way. But it does take away the need to read carefully and put the pieces together in one’s head.
LemonFaerie ‘ear ‘ear!
MM yeah, that sounds good. We are almost to page two. Are you surprised at the lack of outside posts too?
Oh wow and now here’s page 2! LOL! I forgot to update my count before posting that . . . ;)
Yeah! Page two.
Now we just have to be patient with the Trolls and send them to the first page for any post comments they may wish to peruse.
Hi HUFF
The more I think on it, the more I support both Vander Ark and Rowling.
If I were Vander Ark’s lawyer, I’d advise him to sue RDR books for putting him through all this. And if I were Rowling, I’d offer to pay the legal fees.
It would be so ironic, yet so very very sweet.
Oh there you are MM!!
LOL, I was thinking of sticking to my guns and trying not to post off topic for the first few pages or even the first few days (like thru the weekend), but the response to the poll has been so blah that I don’t know if it’s worth it! LOL!!!
Though hopefully the Trolls will realize that we did try. ;) And that we have lots of tutus and spray paint waiting for them!
not to mention the rock cookies
Maybe a little… but I’m not sure. I want Jo to win, because I dont want a sh**load of other encyclopedias discouraging her from writing one, but then again, If JK wins, I want to know that other things, like fan fiction, wouldnt be affected.
I’m with JKR on this one. I don’t agree with SVA’s hypothesis that a win for JKR/WB is a loss for the fans. I actually think the opposite, that if SVA wins all authors will have to take extra steps to ensure that their works are fully copywritted and that will translate into increased limitations on the fandom. I formed an opinion on the case pretty much when Leaky did – over the same quotes. I’m actually really surprised that so many companion books were allowed to be published – that says a lot for JKR’s high opinion of the fandom and willingness to encourage creativity – but at least they added a new opinion versus a regurgitation of facts.
Sorry about my comment on the last page, I didn’t realize we were trying something new….
ScottMan, how does that help with the question of publishing rights?
Laura, good question. I thought about that right after posting. Honestly it wouldn’t, so sadly I think this needs to continue. If it’s settled out of court, then it would just leave it open for future cases. A precedence needs to be set.
THEN Vander Ark could sue RDR Books for putting him through all that mess. ;D
ScottMan, I agree that a precedent needs to be set in court. But I’m with JKR on this one and she did tell SVA that she wasn’t going to approve the publishing of the Lexicon from the beginning. The lawsuit didn’t just come out of nowhere.
Good Afternoon Everyone!!!!!!
Ok Madame Minerva, I will try and keep things quiet!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not sure though that I know how to DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scottman LOL, perhaps that is coming down the pike after this case resolves itself!
But I agree with you and Laura that a precedent does need to be set. I’m sure there have been previous cases about internet vs “real”/hardcopy publishing, but I don’t know any specifics.
And for sure, JKR gave SVA/RDR plenty of advance warning, though again, I’m not sure what is standard practice.
PB I think fan fic is safe right now, though I agree that stifling creativity is something to be very aware of. But – at least right now – there’s a distinction being made between free stuff available online (like fanfic) and for-purchase stuff (like a book).
BTW Laura no worries about your post on the other page. I really just meant this experiment as a “for your consideration”. It’s nice to see you and Herbert! Have a nice flight!
kerri and potterboy it seems like the opposite in this case is likely: If RDR win partly because its been allowed online them WB/Jo will have no choice but to shut down a large section of the creative fandom, to stop something like this happening again. I cant say that they wont become stricter anyway and honestly- i wouldnt blame them (although i wouldnt like it)- but if RDR/SVA hadnt insisted on pushing this forward, or had changed the book so it wasnt just a copy/rearrange/paste job then we never would have been in this position in the first place. The thing im going to miss whether this all changes the fandom or not is jo’s hands on approach. if i was in her position i wouldnt be in a hurry to do anymore ‘wombat’ type games, faqs, or pottercasts. and i can guarentee that there wont be anymore fansite awards! the stupid thing is that by pushing this SVA has alienated a large group of people who would have bought any potter-universe book by him just because it was by him. Im not sure that there are many (though there must be some) people who are still ‘loyal’ to him these days
Hi Mistic! I’m not sure, I think we are ending the experiment of staying on topic? MM suggested it end when we got to page 2, and here we are. . .!
Welcome to “Troll Free” Comments pages, brought to you by Nabisco…
Yeah, i am a little worried it will affect other areas of the fandom. Like some of the Wizard Rock bands sell their songs and that. Does that mean they are breaking copyright laws?
@Laura, Oh absolutely, don’t get me wrong. I totally support JKR here. She’s clearly in her rights to protect her work.
(Wow, did I come across as supporting RDR?)
My My My, it has been a beautiful Saturday!!!!
lets see, I got the grocery shopping done, I took the trash out, I cleaned out the inside of my car, I changed my cats litter pan!!!!! and of course fed him!!!! I got 3 new lamp eye tetras today and now I have six of them, I went to the post office and sent away my bills, and have managed to fix my dinner, my daughter is working until 9pm, so it has been just boots and me today!!!!! I am still reading HP & the HBP, and I do not know what I am going to watch on TV tonight!!!!!
The posting on the main page has tapered off. Everyone discussed it and now it is a wait and see.
I like the idea of JKR and SVA settling and then suing RDR for all their worth. Thanks Laura and Scottman for suggesting it.
Huff – Where are you? I am looking for you!!!!!!!!!!!
I have turned over a lot of rocks and rock cookies looking for your bug.
Mistic Willow – You have been productive today. I have not. the only thing I did do was go to the grocery store. That was only out of pure survival. I had NO FOOD. :(
I am currently debating to do anything else since I do have to go out to dinner. I have to take a shower still. But other wise I am OK with just vegetating here today.
Laura – It is so nice to see Herbert. Have a great flight home. We missed you.
Sorry MM, I am cleaning up the cards from my camera and saving them on my hard drive! I haven’t done this forever and I won’t be able to take pics soon if I don’t!!
I will be around tonight, but in-and-out.
ABC is showing POA tonight, 8pm eastern time!!!!!!
Hello everyone. ;)
ScottMan, Are you a regular poster on the news section or Forums?
If you are, you will find that the Poll Comments are conduted rather differently. We are given a lot of latitude by the staff and we go not only off topic, but into the “real” world.
We do usually get back to HP if not the poll topic.
Since most of us have read or listened to the books multiple times, we may suddenly come up with something that has puzzled us, from any of the 7 books, and ask for input or insight.
If you care to join those of us who live here, you are welcome.
We do have a few basic rules beyond Leaky’s of keeping this a PG13 discussion. The most important of which is that we agree to disagree.
We recognize that opinions are like bums, everyone has one. And we try to remain civil in our disagreements. Nothing we say here will change the world.
Our ages range from 12 or 13 to the upper sixties. Most of us are female, but we do welcome and value any male that can stand to hang out with us.
Most of our adult population have at least some college and many have actually persued knowledge, in many interest areas, on their own.
We are scattered all over the world. 2 are in New Zealand, several are in Canada, several are in GB and a few are in Germany. Most of us are scattered across the US, from New York to Hawaii and most points in between.
Many people want more structure to the discussions and that is what the regular Forums are for.
Anyway, come in take your shoes off and sit a spell. You will soon know if you want to stay. ;)
My alternate name is Mistress of the Hounds. ;)
Welcome. ;)
Conducted not conduted…. ;)
And I am sort of the unofficial welcome wagon. ;)
Trying to stay on topic a bit longer…. I have noticed that when we were discussing it a few people did stick around to see what the responses would be. Its so hard though!
PB I do feel the opposite, though, that if SVA/RDR wins it will be a loss for the fans because all authors will be forced to really up their copyrighting and making absolutely sure that they protect their works so it doesn’t happen this way again. Jo has said she enjoys the fanfic, the websites, the rock bands, all that. The music would fall under a different category, I believe, so I don’t think that would become a part of this, they take the world and do something totally new and different with it. Unless they tried to take passages from the books and just sing them as lyrics, then that might be a problem, LOL. But the fanfic and all that, which is only here online, I don’t think she has any problem with.
Her complaint is that SVA is taking her work, word for word in most cases, and claiming it as his own simply because he decided to put it in a different format. You can’t even take a paragraph from a book and use it in a term paper without citing it properly without getting in trouble for plagiarism, and here he is outright stealing huge chunks of her work and trying to profit from it. That is not right and is against the law. My biggest surprise with this case has been the fact that there is even any question about who is in the right here, thanks to our murky Fair Use laws. Clearly they need to be tightened up, and I hope they will be after this.
It has been quite an education, reading all the transcripts and back and forthing. If you read the news item articles each time something comes out, and then the comments, you really get a lot of info. There are several people hanging out on the comments who have backgrounds in law and know a lot about these issues. And even they cannot agree on who will win, it is just a mess.
I feel so SO bad for Jo and so bad for us if she decides to forgo the Scottish Book because of all this.
OK, stayed on topic, now I can say hello! So, hey everybody. I hope you are having a good Saturday. I am going to go do some scrapbooking so I am not hanging out just now, but couldn’t go without a shout out to the peeps. :) I tried duplicating the tulip painting I did a few months ago. I did two new ones today and have confirmed that when it comes to painting, I am a one hit wonder. sigh Oh, well!
I’ll be back later, save me a margarita if you break ‘em out. XOXOXOX
Lemon!!!! Still here? I agree, it would be awful if JKR never writes the Scottish Book because of all this. :(
Hi Deanie!
ahhhhhhhh, I missed you?
I am missing people left and right!!!
Here is a midori melon margarita for you.
And sorry to anyone who thought I was unwelcoming to the regulars. I didn’t think that being on topic would be such a chore, but perhaps I should not be that surprised, LOL!!!
Hufflebug, We have gotten so use to keeping up with the personal aspects that it is difficult to forego that. ;)
It was a good idea, but just doesn’t translate to action too well.;)
Then again, the most vocal people about this topic have already posted in the news section. ;)
It’s almost time for the hounds yogurt. Then it’s the usual Saturday night groceries and errands. ;)
Bbl. ;)
My internet died while i was uploading a fanfiction banner and now i have to redo it pout
Lurkmark.
I can’t even think of anything else to say!
My attempts at being polite are leaving me speechless! (DS would say ‘finally, something does!’)
:)
Hiya LemonPrincess! I would stay, but I’m going to the mall with my friend who i haven’t seen in weeks :D cyaz
LOL Deanie too true! Old habits die hard!! Plus I agree with you that likely, most people have exhausted themselves on the main page.
Mollywobbles therefore no need to be polite! Spill yo’ beans!!! LOL!!!!!!! :)
Hi LemonPrincess! nice to see you! I hear you are going to be having a delicious dinner!!! ;)
Hi Harriett! Have fun!!!!!
Arrrrrgh… I am INCONSOLABLE!... Toshiko dies on Torchwood…. My favorite character… BUMMER!!!!
We went on an outing today for the first time in weeks. It was a beautiful, sunny, mild day and we went to an urban nature center where they have miles of foot trails and lakes. The geese were nesting and were very hostile. Some of the males came right out on the foot paths to hiss as you passed.
I took photos of wild flowers which I will post at CC if you can see any of the flowers well enough.
It was nice not to have to be at the hospital.
By the way Hufflebug I do think it was a good idea to try to keep the early pages down to the topic issues. It makes sense. I just found that once I had said what I thought I was done. I couldn’t think of anything else to say.
I wonder how Poll Comments ever drifted so far off topic if everyone was accustomed to having to stay on topic as they do on the forums. Who opened the floodgates and turned us all loose? How did it come to pass that someone casually said, “Guess what happened to me today? or I have this problem, what would you do?”
That was a momentous and historical mental leap. I’m very grateful someone back there somewhere was not a rule follower and it turned out there were a lot of rule benders there to listen. If we stayed on topic I wouldn’t have most of my friends.
Well, I have been on here for quite a while. As far as I can recollect, the topic was always run off of, but not as far afield as today. We always limited the “drift” to “Potter stuff”... but I guess it just “morphed” into what we have today… I always credit Melissa for putting up with our excesses… I can only assume she likes what she reads here… I do adore that gal so! lol lol…
Good Night Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was watching A Vampire in Brooklyn, some parts were kind of funny, in my opinion not really scarry!!!!!! bbt
BTW Mistic nothing like funny vampires!!
Cordelia I think I just missed you elsewhere!
Won_Two ‘ear ‘ear about Melissa!!!!
Lady Hawke nice to hear you got outside!
OK, goodnight!
I voted for JKR.
To me it’s very clear cut that she should win. Based on what I’ve read about the pre-trial info and the first day of testimony SVA has contributed next to nothing in the way of original material, which amounts to plagiarism. If he wrote original commentary/analysis of the series that would be an entirely different type of book, one that he is more than capable of creating if he had wanted to. Instead he took the easy way out and tried to make a quick buck by gathering information from other fans who have contributed to the Lexicon, and most importantly, from JKR’s own writing in her series and he attempted to pass it off as his own book. He knows full well what he is doing too. That is why Steve went with a shady publishing house instead of a major publisher. Anything related to the HP franchise is guaranteed to sell well and if Steve’s book was at all legal and credible then a major publishing house would have jumped at the chance to publish his “work.” As Laura wrote, if he wins it will hurt the fans long-term.
Steve has only himself to blame – and maybe his agent for such poor advising, although really common sense and decency should have prevented him from ever attempting such a thing.
Without a majority of original work in his book he has no right to publish it. That’s why all the other books on the market have been OK – they were original works. And no author should be obligated to police international publishing for plagarism or be forced to create a work (or create it faster) just to avoid others stealing her creation.
It’s not Jo’s obligation to buy Steve’s book and correct it or to put off writing other novels so that she can get the Scottish Book to the shelves before a far inferior, incomplete, poorly-researched rip-off like Steve’s.
Cordelia you’re here!!
I am still on the other site. ;)
To the regular poll commenters: I think Huff’s idea is great – and let’s not forget that most fans aren’t like we are. they may not have checked into Leaky the second a new poll is created – so there will probably be a lot of new people wanting to post here over the next several days.
With that in mind I’m going to “catch up” on non-poll comments at the old poll: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2008/3/13/where-should-deathly-hallows-part-one-end/text_comments/151
:)
Evening all! I’m going to catch up on the previous poll before I jump in here. I’m surprised to see so few posts. When I saw the new poll, I thought the comments would be fast and furious like they have been on the news pages. Maybe everyone’s already said all they need to say on the topic. ;)
I am 100% with Jo on this one, and have been since I first read about the case. Initially it was purely an emotional reaction – I just wanted to support Jo, even though I didn’t know too much about the finer points of the issues being argued. Each new piece of information I learned reinforced that opinion, and Leaky’s being dragged into the whole mess just solidified it. I’ve been quite surprised (and disappointed) to learn that it seems like the case could go either way.
Hmm…I guess I jumped in here after all! :)
...and yet… STILL on page 2! LOL
OH, Won_Two, I happened to run into Dr. Who (first time!) last night after I logged off! Wow, it was fun! It was a Titanic episode, with ‘Barty Jr.’ as the Dr., if that rings a bell. It was even more SciFi than Quantum Leap or Highlander, a whole new take on the time/space-traveling-good-guy theme. Stayed up WAY too late to watch, but I had to finish it!
I could get hooked! (As if I need more distraction! LOL!)
Hi back at ya, Deanie! Yeah, I’ve been posting here on and off since…hm, 4 or 5 years now? Something like that, ever since I discovered Harry Potter, which was ironically (and now a little bit sadly) through the Lexicon…back when we were all a big happy family….
