GingerLibby: There’s nothing wrong with being a sidekick. I do not mind the term sidekick with Ron, but I would hasten to add that Hermione is a sidekick to Harry as well (and a lot of people lovingly refer to Ron and Hermione as “the sidekicks” actually). It’s the “goofy sidekick” role that a lot of fans feel Ron has been squeezed into in the movies that I think people have issues with.

But how is Ron being stupid connected to him feeling inadequate? That has little to do with intelligence (Ron is really quite bright when he puts his mind to it). After all, the point (and what Ron learns) is that he’s not actually inadequate at all. I actually think the DH plot will seem extremely out of place because they haven’t really portrayed that aspect of Ron well in the movies. I think they will have to cut his subplot if they don’t start really working on that in HBP. I want to see that on screen so badly.

Reishbah… Do I really get not the characters? Well You actually don’t get what I write… That was not MY opinion: that is what the movies makes us think. And for Cuaron: his movie was great, it’s the best so far, and COLUMBUS???? What the hell, his movies were ridiculous and childish: and obviously he did a good job because the first two books are much shorter than the others… he couldn’t fail. Columbus has an American point of view and he created a Magical World that could perfectly fit into Disneyland or something like that: it looked like an amusement park, not like real world, real life. he did a movie for kids, (and that’s what he was supposed to do) but he cannot afford to do DH, which needs a very mature, deep, dark and threatening movie. Cuaron is a great director, and, being latino, gave the movie a European look, and that’s what Harry Potter is. And apart from that: JK said that she couldn’t expect any better from PoA, that Cuaron did exactly what she thought he would have done to respect and represent her story… Isn’t it telling that JK appears with the director only in PoA’s DVDs and not in the others? I would love Yates to do DH, because he proved to be in touch with the story and the books, but he has to “dare” more with the script…

Rose: JK’s favorite movie is OotP- she said this after seeing the film. Also Cuaron is from Mexico City, which is of course North America. How does that make his movies more European than an American director? I would think that British and American cultures are far closer than British and Mexican.

uhh… Kloves is a bad idea. I know he’s great at making money, but he’s not great at making US happy. We all know Ron being a high-pitched retard is a money spinner, and Emma Watson being Harry’s sexy/smart best friend can bring in the guys, but COME ON, please WB, it’s the last movie! Make it REAL!

Kelly: I have read the books, thankyou very much.

Yes, Ron is jealous, pigheaded, insecure and rather unintelligent for most of the series. A lot of his dialogue revolves around these personality traits. His jealousy of Harry in GOF, his complete lack of understanding with regards to Ginny’s love life in HBP, his insecurities about Keeping in OOTP and HBP and his anger and jealousy toward Harry in DH (the locket Horcrux cultivated the seeds but Ron planted them).

Ron doesn’t solve the mysteries, Harry and Hermione do. Hermione found Flamel in her book in PS and figured out that the object was hidden in the school was the Philosopher’s Stone. Harry figured out that there was a Basilisk in the Chamber (with help from Hermione) and that the entrace was in Moaning Myrtle’s bathroom. Harry was the only one of the trio who realised that Draco was up yo something in HBP. Ron’s part in these things is generally to chime in with hilariously far-fetched theories that mostly turn out to be untrue.

I certainly don’t hate Ron, he is a very flawed character though, and JKR made him that way on purpose, he balances out the trio. Of course nobody is perfect, but Ron is an especially flawed character, and as JKR rightly says, the last of the trio to grow up. All I was trying to point out, was that most of what he says and does is not central to the plot, and what IS relevant to the central plot is given all due notice in the films (and I’m sure the scene where Ron destroys the Horcrux will be too). Therefore I think it’s completely unreasonable for anyone to say that Kloves is a Ron-hater. I think he gave Ron a bigger part than Goldenberg did in OOTP, actually.

I never said Ron was cowardly either, so I don’t know where you picked that up. Ron is not cowardly, he is merely the most magically inept of the trio so his bravery generally doesn’t translate to extraordinary magic.

And yes, Hermione got Ron’s line in the Shrieking Shack in the PoA film. I did mention this (indirectly) in my last comment. I would not have a clue why this was done. It’s such a minor change that it does not bother me at . We don’t even know if it was in the screenplay. It could have been Cuaron’s decision to give the line to Hermione, in which case we could be blaming him, not Kloves. Bottom line is, who cares? It’s one line, and it sounded fine coming from Hermione, although it would’ve sounded better coming ftom Ron, I agree. Other than this, I think Kloves has been faithful to Ron’s character and spirit and I don’t see where people are getting this Ron-hating stuff from.

kelly: I know Jk’s favourite movie is OoTP, but I didn’t say that it was PoA…Anyway: Moviemaking has its rules, and also scriptwriting has its own balance to reach. In each and every movie we see there’s the Hero, his/her clever friend, the goofy and funny sidekick (who is the hero’s best friend most of the times) and the hero’s love interest. And that’s what people expect most of the times. What many people don’t understand is that a movie is not a book: you cannot afford to represent each and every detail, the nuances of a character, the peculiar aspects of a relationship. You can try to convey these ideas, but a book has a lot more room and time to do this, and, obviously, it does it better. So, when you write a screenplay, you have to make some choices: you cannot possibly represent every aspect of a character, so you have to simplify it, and stress his/her main qualities/defects. So that’s why they simplified Ron’s character (and also Hermione’s in my opinion): the scriptwriter couldn’t convey in the movie all the features of his character, so he chose what he thought to be his main characteristics and, in particular, what he thought would help more the story. We all know that Ron’s not what he is in the movies. But nor is Harry, nor Hermione. Or, at least, not completely. You have to think that most of the times in a screenplay you have to convey an idea (which in the book maybe it is described in a page) in a few seconds, with just a line, or perhaps with a gaze or an expression of the face. That’s not easy.

Kelly: you are probably right on Cuaron, but I’m Italian, so probably his ideas are closer to mine, because we are both “latins”.... I don’t know….

MattyJM: you got the point, thanks… I agree with you…

I would love to add that I don’t think Ron is the only person butchered.

Hermione’s part is amplified. She gets Dumbledore’s lines (COS, “fear of a name…etc.”), she gets Hagrid and Ron’s line explaining Mudbloods (COS), she gets Ron’s line in POA, she gets Mr. Weasley’s line explaining the Dark Mark to Harry (and people assume she is the PERFECT all-knowing character, which is a flaw in the movies), and then she has that ridiculous scene with Harry (GOF) where she talks about how she’s worried about him, makes a lame joke about Viktor, hops from one side to another, overacting all over the place. Because we as fans view Hermione and Ron as a unit, rather than Harry and Hermione, or Harry and Ron, I feel Ron’s part is diminished because of Hermione. But Ron is not the only sufferer, yet because he is one of the main characters, I think this is a big deal.

Hermione in the books is book-smart, but not wizarding-world smart like Ron. Ron is the trio’s only connection to the reality of the wizarding world. When they screw with Hermione, and make her understand deeper things like the Dark Mark, or Mudbloods, it lessens the emotive and darker undertones of the books. This whole blood-discrimination shows the sophistication of Jo’s books, yet they have completely dropped that act since Movie 2. When Malfoy said it in movie 3, it was just awkward. It was just a name-call; there were no explanations or examples of cruelty that would’ve fitted perfectly during the Quidditch World Cup. That would’ve made the movies better… but now all we see is a stupid prophecy and a battle with Harry vs. Voldemort… not the issue of Racism.

Another thing that pisses me off is Voldemort’s name. They say it all the time; this creates a contradiction. This contradiction messes up the actual fear that Voldemort induces—something I believe they should have included when Mr. Weasley describes the feeling of someone coming home to a Dark Mark hovering over their house.

Not that I blame them, but this is all WB’s fault. They require the directors to milk the cash cow. Younger children won’t understand Ron’s jokes in the book, those that are funny, sarcastic and a bit witty. No, children can only as far understand funny that they can laugh at like Ron’s fear of everything, apparently, his jealousy of another race (as if he would want to beat up a koala if it “hit on” Hermione) thus trying to beat up the troll without a wand, his clumsiness, and his voice-breaking even though it’s been going on forever now. The fact that children don’t understand more sophisticated humor is the reason why Ron is essentially “dumb”. Children also enjoy laughing at the retardation of Trelawny, as shown in the Extras part on the OotP DVD. She is superstitious, but not mentally disabled. I found it unfunny, and an insult to Jo’s books.

Oh yeah, and as much as I am a R/Hr shipper, I have to say, Emma’s apparent love for Hermione’s “feminism”, and that “feminism” came completely out of her ass, and the script-writers, obviously, because nowhere in the books has Ron ever said anything sexist. That scene where Ron says, “I’ll go easy on you,” which our lovely Emma Watson described as “sexist”, showed Hermiones “girl power”, um “kick ass” side, which I loathed. How can you possibly enjoy a pairing like that after GOF’s horrible H/Hr kissing and hugging, while Ron and Hermione got in a fight. Completely misleading, my mom thought H/Hr was going to happen, because Emmione kept worrying and caring for Harry, while treating “Ronald” (don’t know why, but he’s only been called that by Mrs. Weasley, if ever) like an insolent child.

There, I said it. I hate you, WB. I hate your movies, too. I only watch it with the hope that the next will be more fan-friendly.

Oh, I should’ve added that many of those faults could have lead to Kloves. But more importantly, we need to stop killing Kloves, and center the problems on the system itself. Thus, I disagree with the above argument about Kloves. It’s not just Kloves.

Why do they keep bringing Kloves back, he’s the worst part of the franchise. He’s never loyal to the text and frequently misses out parts that are important in favour of cheesy, childish crap. I don’t like the prologue of book 7 anyway and he’s going to make me gag I just know it. If there was anyone who could make it as slushy as it could be it’s Kloves. I’m going to need several sick bags instead of just the one that should have come free with the book (I loved book 7 up until the last chapter). I was hoping they’d get someone talented in for the last film…what a shame. Let’s hope they get a corking director at least.

Holy crap burningpumpkins you’re ABSOLUTELY right!!!!!!! The point is THESE MOVIES ARE MADE TO GAIN A LOT OF MONEY!!!! And WB don’t mean to “please” us fans, because they know that, in any case, we will go and watch the movie. Their main aim is to reach the ones who don’t read the books, and to do so they have to “ensnare their senses”, by giving them what I said above, that is to say: the usual and canon movie pattern. I’m a teacher in junior high, so my job is trying to understand kids: most of them don’t give a damn about the books and the original story, they just want “magic”, “Fights”, “jokes”. And that’s what WB give to them. Because they are the ones who buy their merchandising, they are the ones who go to the cinema… etc. Obviously they try to respect JK’s story, because they are conscious of the number of book fans, but, for god’s sake, they are trying to make money and if, in their opinion, Ron has to be clumsy and Hermione has to be wonder woman to do it, well… they just do it…

Is there any reason why it can’t be 20 hours long? Imposing a time limit on what is going to be a total epic is ludicrous.

Is there any reason why it can’t be serialised – a one hour slot weekly for a year – so we get a feel for the real scope and tragedy of the thing?

Sigh

Oh, and it’s an epilogue, not a prologue, as in after and before respectively.

We never have control over the films so just enjoy the books, see everything in your mind, and accept that WB are unimaginative and the medium of ‘block-buster movie’ will never, EVER serve art. The people in charge are motivated by money. The people with ideas are on strike. And the people in between are almost as powerless as us. Maybe in the future, as with Austen books, the HP series will be serialised with a new cast, giving more time and attention to detail and less gloss and formula – giving the stories the depth they deserve. Otherwise, pick up a book and enjoy. That is where the riches are and always will be.

A variety of odds and ends, some of which I’ve posted before (or others have), adding up to a lengthy post I fear.

First, a rather nasty tone crept into some of this discussion, can we stop the personal attacks please? We agree to disagree, since as Roni (?) put it we all envision the films differently and want them to match our imaginations.

Second, we can type til our fingers bleed, but we have no say in any of the decisions.

Third, the control in film making is a vague and constantly shifting relationsip (sheez, just like the Dark Arts!) between director, screen writer and editor as the three most influential members of the production staff…and others have influence on the process as well. So, focusing on just Kloves or Goldenberg, Columbus or Yates, etc makes little sense. I personally want Evanna Lynch paid extra to be the on the set HP expert since she is a true fan as well as perfect for her role.

Next, please do remember that the films were being cranked out while the books were still being written? Despite consultations with JKR there were obviously portions of the films ….as a continuous story line and within each film as a stand alone, independent story …that couldnt predict what the final outcome of the HP novels would be.

Also, I recall that JKR has said on several occasions that she really enjoyed Kloves as screenwriter and felt that she could trust him to capture the essence of her novels. I don’t have my file of her interviews handy, perhaps those remarks can be found on Accio Quote? I’ll also add in fairness that she has pretty much said that each film is her favorite, that she enjoys them all.

The suggestion has been made by others as well as by me (and my daughter and I actually have done this for the first four books). Buy a paperback copy of each novel, and a set of different colored markers. Highlight those areas that absolutely must be in the filmthe over all series to make sense, and for the individual film to have its own coherence. Use a different color to highlight those sections that are not important to the individual film or overall series and can therefore be deleted. Go back over the marked up copy several times to make it as short as possible. Then you’ll have a good idea of how a screenwriter starts imagining the script.

And last, although I know Bella will disagree with me: there will be a remake, someday. Minimum 20 years, probably not for 30 or more… some of you will be lucky enough to see those, and will be able to argue happily in the New Leaky Cauldron discussion boards. Its unlikely, but I hope I’m still around as well…

In the meantime, let’s just admit, despite our differing opinions about and our differing desires for the films, we all will go and see them in the theatres, we’ll buy the dvds, we’ll buy the extended versions when those come out around 2012…let’s just enjoy?