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Lexicon Update; Schedule Moved, RDR Request for JK Rowling's Notes Denied (Updated)
Companion BooksAn update containing JKR/WB’s response to RDR’s requests for information is at the second half of this post.
A few things of note today in the case by JKR/WB against RDR Books and those who wish to publish a print version of the Harry Potter Lexicon:
Firstly, the schedule has been moved again. RDR requested and received an extension to file their reply to the complaint. It was scheduled to be due on Feb. 5; it is now due Feb. 8. JKR/WB will reply by Feb. 27. There will be a hearing on the matter in New York on March 13.
Secondly, a judge has denied RDR’s request for copies of the notes that would comprise J.K. Rowling’s encyclopedia, but granted that JKR/WB submit statements J.K. Rowling has made in “publications” regarding her plans for her encyclopedia.
The letter, which you can download here in parts one, two, three and four (or view online here), is from David Hammer, lawyer for RDR, and says that the notes are requested in order to “test the merits” of J.K. Rowling’s claims that she is going to write an encyclopedia and that part of the reason for suppressing the HPL would be to suppress potential competition. RDR asked for “copies of any prepatory materials that Ms. Rowling has drafted or authorized to be drafted, including notes, outlines, drafts, marketing proposals, etc.”
JKR/WB indicated to RDR that they would resist the request, and so RDR asked the judge to convene a discovery conference, which occurred on Nov. 30. At the conference RDR argued, according to this letter, that the notes would determine “how far Ms. Rowling had progressed in this project…how similar, and thus how competitive, Ms. Rowling’s guide, and the Lexicon, were likely to be.” At the time, the letter says, the judge “expressly stated that defendant was entitled to anything that Ms. Rowling had so far composed or authorized.”
When RDR made the request for the papers, a lawyer for Ms. Rowling responded that:
“Ms. Rowling has made notes relating to each of the seven Harry Potter books which she will use in writing her long-planned Harry Potter companion guide. In addition, Scholastic’s Harry Potter continuity editor, Cheryl Klein, among others, has indexed the characters, places, creatures, spells and other things from the Harry Potter world which Ms. Rowling created. Ms. Rowling’s U.K. publisher, Bloomsbury, has similarly copiled four huge volumes of material constituting a comprehensive ‘bible’ of the Harry Potter world. Ms. Rowling believes the information from Scholastic and Bloomsbury to be more detailed and accurate than any other outside source (other than herself) regarding the Harry Potter series, including the Lexicon Website. Ms. Rowling would be free to draw on the materials from either of her two publishers should she choose to do so. The process of turning her existing notes into the definitive encyclolpedic Harry Potter companion guide is ongoing and is being continually augmented with the addition of further material from her creativemind on a regular basis.”
The letter states that RDR submitted a request for the materials in that response, and that JKR/WB provided nothing. (However, large portions of the Harry Potter ‘bible’ mentioned are freely available in the public court documents filed on January 16.)
The letter also states that JKR/WB responded that RDR’s request was “irrelevant and not calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence as the status of Ms. Rowling’s planned companion guide is irrelevant to the determination of whether Defendant has infringed Plaintiff’s copyrights in the existing Harry Potter works at issue.”
RDR says, “If plaintiffs no longer assert that the Lexicon must be suppressed to protect Ms. Rowling’s right to publish a future companion guide, they should make a clear and explicit statement to that effect. Absent such a statement, Ms. Rowling’s notes are highly relevant to this case.”
The letter asks for: 1. The notes that JKR has made on the seven novels 2. Cheryl Klein’s full index 3. Bloomsbury’s ‘comprehensive bible’ 4. The ‘further material from Ms. Rowling’s creative mind.’
The letter also notes that JKR/WB cited confidentiality concerns and stated they are willing to abide by any ‘lawyers only’ restriction to the review of materials, except for one expert witness.
The note from the judge at the bottom of the letter requires JKR/WB to provide RDR with statements contained in publications listed by JKR/WB in a response to one of RDR’s claims, but denies the rest, saying that RDR has “not shown the Court that any further discovery about Ms. Rowling’s notes would be helpful to Defendant’s position.”
You can read the full breakdown of the complaint filed by JKR/WB here and here. We will provide more information as it becomes available.
UPDATE
We’ve now reviewed the JKR/WB response to RDR’s requests (which also includes the text of those requests), which was sent as a letter to Judge Patterson, the NY judge overseeing the case. This is a 21 page document that says:
1. JKR/WB object to what it sees as RDR’s “pattern of writing the Court whenever it wishes without first making any effort to meet and confer, lte alone giving sufficient advance notice of its intended communication with the Court.”
2. The lawyers on the JKR/WB side called the attempt to access the “top secret, personal, proprietary notes” as “extremely burdensome and unnecessary for the resolution of any issue in this case, particularly in light of Ms. Rowling’s interrogatory responses and the documents that Plaintiffs produced in support of theirm otion for preliminary injunctin.”
3. At the Nov. 30 hearing RDR said it required “expedited discovery” to determine the ‘palpability’ of JKR’s planned encyclopedia, and that the court said RDR could serve interrogatories (which are requests for information) as well as seek discovery on any manuscript. That manuscript would be subject of review inside the judge’s chambers (not handed over). (The Court, according to this letter, did not originally grant full right to JKR’s notes at the Nov. 30 meeting, just gave RDR the right to request it – and presumably prove why they are necessary.)
4. JKR/WB responded to those requests for info by saying there was no manuscript of outline but that JKR had notes, and her publishers had indexes. After this response RDR requested “All COMMUNICATIONS and DOCUMENTS REFERRING OR RELATING TO” [caps in document] JKR’s notes as well as any further material. JKR/WB’s side say they far exceed the scope of discovery that RDR indicated it would require on Nov. 30, and says that they thought the documents from Scholastic and Bloomsbury filed with the motion for injunction would suffice to fulfill RDR’s request.
5. The note calls JKR’s notes and publishers’ materials “completely irrelevant” to the question of whether the Lexicon book infringes copyright. “Obviously, needing to concede copying, RDR’s defense to such copying is based on fair use. It is in connection with RDR’s fair use defense that Plaintiffs have addressed the issue of potential market harm. ... Whether or not the books would be similar or identical and therefore directly competing is not the correct inquiry; it is rather whether or not Ms. Rowling would generally enter the market for companion books, which she already has done with her first two companion guides and has repeatedly stated she will continue to do with her planned encyclopedia to the world of Harry Potter.”
6. Even were the notes relevant, the letter says, JKR/WB is not saying that JKR’s notes are similar to the Lexicon book but that Scholastic and Bloomsbury’s guides that JKR may draw on are similar to the Lexicon book.
7. JKR’s “overwhelmingly sensitive” notes would serve “no legitimate purpose othre htan to harass Ms. Rowling. Rather, the burden of producing these notes far outweighs any benefit to RDR in obtaining them.”
The exhibit attached is an objection to RDR’s requests for then notes, saying that the requests:
-Seek information that is protected by attorney-client privilege, work-prouct doctrine, right to privacy and “any other applicable legal, statutory or constitutional privilege.” -Seek the disclosure of confidential, proprietary or trade secret informatoin -Seek information that RDR may otherwise obtain from public sources (ie, whehter JKR plans to write a companion book or not, not the content of her notes)
It also notes the objections don’t constitute acknowledgment of the relevance, importance or admissibility of any issue discussed.
The first request from RDR (No. 1) was for: outlines, proposals, manuscripts, marketing plans, lettres of intent or contracts that JKR has drafted, authorized to be draftd, or received from any of hre employees or agents concerning the encyclopedia. RDR asked that JKR/WB describe each document’s contents in detail, identify when it was composed and where it is presently located, and who holds it. JKR/WB responded that the request was vague and ambiguous, overbroad and unduly burdensome, because it does not seek a response toa question and is supopsed to be part of an expedited discovery process, which “generally only allows for very limited discovery demands.” It is apparently also very different than what was asked for on Nov. 30.
The second request from RDR (No. 2) was for JKR/WB to identify and describe all communications about the encyclopedia involving JKR or “any person that [she] has authorized to act on her behalf, and ay other person,” and to describe the content, idenfity when the communication took place, and identify the parties involved for each communication. JKR/WB’s response was the same as for No. 1, generally – claiming it is burdensome and overbroad, and not relevant, and such information subject to many restrictions, including lawyer-client privilege. It also notes that JKR has told reps from hre literary agency from as early as 2000, of her plans to write such an encyclopedia, and her agency has acted on her behalf to many other parties since 2001 – including pubilshers – though no contracts have been drawn. It also says she has made many public statements to that effect.
RDR, this exhibit reveals, also attached to its requests for information a press report from MTV News that says JK Rowling has not yet started her encyclopedia,and will take a break from writing before she does. RDR requested that JKR/WB state whether that is true, and describe any further public statements – as well as identify by name, address, phone number and affiliation the reporters who were present at that press conference, as well as a transcript of the press conference. JKR/WB responded with similar complaints to No. 1 and No. 2, and says that the quote is not inaccurate in that JKR had not yet, at the time of that conference, started to turn her notes into a manuscript, but she is “augmenting her existing notes.” She took a break after her tour, but “nevertheless penned some additional materials that are intended for inclusion in her Harry Potter companion guide.” The document then lists instances of 88 press reports of her statements on the encyclopedia ranging back to 2001, and mentions television interviews as well as Leaky’s PotterCast interview and several other web site postings that dealt with the possibility of her publishing an encyclopedia. This is the portion of RDR’s requests for info that the judge granted – that JKR/WB describe these statements, most or all of which are public record.
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Mellisa, as always, our thanks for keeping us informed, and for your courage in serving as moderator in the discussions
cheers b
I wonder how Steve would feel if another website copied vast chunks of the Lexicon, slightly reworded the titles ect. and then charged people to access the material …
I imagine he’d consider it morally bankrupt, but how, then, can he consider the ongoing proceedings as anything other than reprehensible?
P.S. LemonFaerie, you are quite right to feel offended by Bjorn’s comments: there ‘is’ a well-known ‘Only in America’ comment, that is often heard in relation to ludicrous legal actions, but please rest assured that I, and I think most other people, internationally, do NOT consider Americans to be greedy, fame-hungry ect. People are people: most good, some bad; their nationality should not come into it!
I don’t blame them for going through the courts with everything. Like JKR would give them anything if they met and conferred…
I’m appalled that they would even ask for her notes. That’s the point of the encyclopedia. If she wanted all of her notes just leaked to the public, she would have thrown them out there long time ago. She wants to write a proper book that properly explains everything, not have some money-grubber do it half-arse. Shame on Lexicon. Shame shame shame. Just proves he’s at it for the money certainly not the fans.
If he cared AT ALL about the fans, he’d let us have what we want, a full-on tell it all book from the woman who has much of it in her head, not some shoddy hack that can’t come up with an original thought.
I have to throw in my two cents here. Why is this becoming such a big deal? I mean, let’s look at that facts. RDR/Steve wants to publish a book. JKR/WB doesn’t want him to. They are going to settle it in court and that will be that. Personally I think there are plenty of arguments on both sides and I don’t hold any animosity towards anyone involved. I really appreciate, as I think most of us do, JKR for writing the books. I also really appreciate Steve for creating the Lexicon site. I have hit it at least once every day for the last five months since I started writing Fanfiction.
In the end one of two things will happen.
1. The Lexicon book gets published and few people buy it, since I don’t see why anyone would since you can get an updated version for free online. Then JKR publishes her book eventually, which everyone will buy.
2. The Lexicon book doesn’t get published. Then JKR publishes her book eventually, which everyone will buy.
I just don’t see why everyone is getting so upset about this. I’ve heard people say it will affect the fandom. I’m sorry, I can’t see JKR/WB causing the rest of the fandom to suffer over this. I don’t think JKR would let that happen. She cares too much about her fans to do that.
Anyway, it’s just my opinion. Thanks.
I keep thinking of the 17 years of heart, soul & mind JKR put into Harry Potter, and if it were me, it would NOT be a matter of money at all, but rather the ABUSE of a third party thinking they had the right to leach off of that. Think if SVA had put all of the time and effort of this court case into a creative work of his own. That would be time better spent, than this coat-tail riding behavior. I agree with those who commented on a loss of respect for the Lexicon. At this point I am boycotting the website, and would never buy the book. Jo has demonstrated such generosity of spirit throughout the whole HP phenomenon, that I hate to see her suffering through this debacle. We’re with you, Jo!
LMBe said: “I’ve heard people say it will affect the fandom. I’m sorry, I can’t see JKR/WB causing the rest of the fandom to suffer over this. I don’t think JKR would let that happen. She cares too much about her fans to do that.”
Because, LMBe, the belief is that it won’t just affect the HP fandom if RDR wins this case. It’s believed that it will set a precedence (sp?) for such a thing and it will have authors/creators everywhere, who want to protect their creations, crack down even harder on what websites are allowed to have for fear that something similar could happen to their own works, in many cases their own means of livelyhood.
I’ve heard things like that before. I’ve only been a serious Harry Potter fan for a short time, but I’ve been a huge fan of Star Trek and Transformers and very involved in Transformers Fandom, for many years. Over the years I’ve heard about what might “affect the Fandom”, I’ve never seen it actually happen.
Years ago I used to hear how web sites would be getting sued and shut down, etc, etc, and it just hasn’t happened. Pick anything you want, HP, Start Trek, Transformers, Star Wars, etc, and you’ll find thousands of sites operating. You can find dozens of legal principles that say that they are illegal, and yet, here they are. In the end, the vast majority of them are good advertising for the publisher/creators and they wouldn’t want them shut down.
In the case of books, this won’t affect people who want to publsih books about HP or anything else, as long as the books are creating something knew. Just don’t try to publish and encyclodepia type book.
I really think when this is over, the Lexicon book won’t be published and the only thing that will be affected is that if you want to try to publish an encyclopedia type book about someone else’s work their will be a court decision that goes against you. Most of RDR/SVA’s arguments are a smoke screen that will just be ignored as irrelevant by the court.
I just think a lot is being made about nothing. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time. :-)
I mistyped my username in my last post. It should have been lmb3. Thanks.
Silvermoon said: “Because, LMBe, the belief is that it won’t just affect the HP fandom if RDR wins this case. It’s believed that it will set a precedence (sp?) for such a thing and it will have authors/creators everywhere, who want to protect their creations, crack down even harder on what websites are allowed to have for fear that something similar could happen to their own works, in many cases their own means of livelyhood.”
Silvermoon, I’ve heard things like that before. I’ve only been a serious Harry Potter fan for a short time, but I’ve been a huge fan of Star Trek and Transformers and very involved in Transformers Fandom, for many years. Over the years I’ve heard about what might “affect the Fandom”, I’ve never seen it actually happen.
Years ago I used to hear how web sites would be getting sued and shut down, etc, etc, and it just hasn’t happened. Pick anything you want, HP, Start Trek, Transformers, Star Wars, etc, and you’ll find thousands of sites operating. You can find dozens of legal principles that say that they are illegal, and yet, here they are. In the end, the vast majority of them are good advertising for the publisher/creators and they wouldn’t want them shut down.
In the case of books, this won’t affect people who want to publsih books about HP or anything else, as long as the books are creating something knew. Just don’t try to publish and encyclodepia type book.
I really think when this is over, the Lexicon book won’t be published and the only thing that will be affected is that if you want to try to publish an encyclopedia type book about someone else’s work their will be a court decision that goes against you. Most of RDR/SVA’s arguments are a smoke screen that will just be ignored as irrelevant by the court.
I just think a lot is being made about nothing. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time. :-)
I mistyped my username in my last post. It should have been lmb3. Thanks.
”...as well as identify by name, address, phone number and affiliation the reporters who were present at that press conference…”
Sounds like a terrible waste of time, doesn’t it? Why would that kind of information be helpful. I don’t quite understand: Is this request included in the part of RDR’s requests that the judge granted, or isn’t it?
Thanks as ever to Melissa and Leaky for keeping us informed. Sometimes I think it would be easier just to ignore this whole thing till it’s over; but, if we’re going to have any chance of understanding the final ruling when it comes out, I think it will be a great help to have been following the details all along.
Airthmancer: I think that is the point really. I think RDR are trying to ask for all sorts of things they don’t really need but is vaguely linked to the case in the hope that it is granted and JKR/WB find it too much hassle to provide bits of information asked for and drop bits of the claim. The problem is that JKR/WBs lawyers and the judge are far too good to fall for such a trick, and it might be seen as them trying to be obstructive and count against them.
Sorry, with the continuation of this dispute, RDR and Lexicon are not coming across as fair and decent. JKR is the owner of this world, no matter how many people helped along the way.
Just because someone helps you move doesn’t give them the right to live with you…
To LMB3: In the ‘Full Request for Injunction’ filed by JKR/WB, the following point can be found:
9. A rule against JKR/WB would harm the fan community by “necessitating more monitoring and restriction of fan activity by copyright owners afraid of compromising their rights against infringers.”
You’ll note the key words there are: are ‘monitoring and restriction of fan activity’. This is probably the most disturbing part of the whole lawsuit that WB/JKR could conceivably use this as a springboard to take action against other forms of media.
But don’t take my word for it, as I said, that statement came form the injunction.
May: The judge didn’t agree to the notes being made public. The RDR lawyers asked for it but all the judge agreed to was information on what Jo said publicly about the Scottish book, which is something RDR could probably find out themselves with a good search engine.
You can ignore my previous post. I was mistakenly replying to a post much earlier in the thread.
To The Laughing Man: You said it yourself. ”...could conceivably use this as a springboard to take action against other forms of media.” You’re right, they could, but it doesn’t mean they will. Quite frankly, unless someone is trying to do something like this that clearly is, at least in my opinion, an infringement of their rights, I don’t think they will do anything. That’s just my opinion, but I think that is a lot of legal rhetoric that is really no different from some of the claims that RDR/SVA have made. It’s all legal posturing.
In fact, if the ruling did go in favor of RDR/SVA, that would weaken WB/JKR’s ability to control anything. If they can’t stop the book from being published, that would open up a lot of other things they couldn’t stop. If RDR/SVA can publish the Lexicon Book without infringing on copyright, then how can they argue a web site infringes their copyright? If anything a ruling against WB/JKR would weaken their ability to restrict anything, so while they might feel it would necessitate it, they still couldn’t do it.
I happen to believe the book shouldn’t be published, and I don’t see any way the Lexicon Book will be published anyway, so maybe that’s also why I think a lot is being made out of nothing.
Thanks.
Wow…the nerve of them!! I agree with what most people said here. This is horrible!!!! How dare they even ask for those notes! Grr…this makes me so mad. This guy (Steve Vander Ark, is it?) has no respect for the creator of the very books he fanboys over! But, RDR is very amusing. “All your notes is belonging to us now, Ms. Rowlin! Are you compete with our book? Ha ha ha ha ha!”
Oh, and I forgot to thank our dear Melissa for working hard to give her fellow HP fans this information. Thanks a lot! =_=
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Leaky Poll
Since DH was published, your interest in Potter fandom has:
- Increased! I'm more involved now than I ever was!900 (22%)
- It's stayed at the same level of fun it always has!1486 (37%)
- Decreased slightly: I only check sites a few times a week now.1020 (25%)
- Severely lowered. Without new canon, I'm bored.407 (10%)
- It's gone. In fact, I can't even answer this poll because I'm not really visting a Potter site.130 (3%)
When you cut away the legal bull it comes down to this: Steve wanted official sanction and recognition and a job. Jo refused all three. So he got mad. Jo’s “disillusioned” comment last year is explained by the above November requests for all the info demanded by RDR (i.e. Steve). This is nasty. IMO it’s about a bruised ego, frustration, and greed, which has blown up into rage, and all the consequent legal nonsense that our brave Melissa has had to plough through and pass on to us. Jo created the world and now we can see clearly what some individuals have made of it. Don’t be suckers and believe RDR’s legal smokescreen. This is about ego, rage, and money. Nothing more. Anybody who believes otherwise is, in the immortal phrase, “delusional.”