I think I’m on Steve’s side. Yes some of his claims are a little out there, but then again some of WB’s claims were a little intense as well. I think thats just all part of the machine of the lawsuit. And I don’t think RDR’s lawyers are all that bright.
But I am reserving final judgment, because I think it really does depend on the content and length of the intended book..
I don’t believe Steve is trying to make a quick buck. In fact, I was one of the people who requested a print version of the lexicon (my eyes get tire on the computer screen), so I understand his motivation there.
Nevertheless, all that aside, I’m not sure I’m convinced that this case counts as copyright infringement. Yes, don’t attack me here, I understand that the majority of the book was a list of entries. But HP is more than a list of magical items. We love HP because of the characters. It was successful because of the story, the narration, and the details were added pleasure.
If Harry Potter was a book listing imagined magical items and places and characters, then the encyclopedia would undoubtedly be copyright infringement. (though HP would’ve been preeeetttty boring)
And while I understand Jo’s reasons for not wanting an encyclopedia published (and honestly, I even agree with it!), but just because her reasons are cool and great, I don’t think that necessarily give her to right to halt other companion volumes.
roonwit, greetings! I was wondering where you were…your input into this conversation is always informed and thoughtful, which i and others appreciate.
if we are on the right track, then is the idea behind the suit becomes —if (and its a big IF) RDR wins, RDR will make its money from the court settlement and not from sales. proving damages tho would be difficult: RDR’s attorneys would need to argue IF the book appeared in Nov 2007 (for example) projected sales would have been….
If this is the best that Steve and RDR can come up with, then they have no case at all.
And I’m going to love the response from JKR/WB. Who wants to wager that there will be statements from both Cheryl Klein and David Heyman reminding Steve that any tacit approval of a FREE online resource isn’t the same thing as giving the go ahead to a for-profit version of the same site?
There’s no way that RDR is going to win this, which is fine with me.
You know, I wonder what Steve is thinking? Seriously…I would like to hear HIS reasoning behind doing this to Jo. Legality and lawyer issues aside, why is he doing this? Surely, he does not want to be on the outs with Jo…is this book that important to him? How can something so wholly unoriginal be worth all of this to him. Is it the money? Is it standing up for his fellow “fan” writers? I don’t get it. Does he not feel bad about what he is doing to Jo. His whole career, at this moment I mean, is because of her work…or at least her success is the reason why he has the Lexicon and this book he is trying to publish. You know what Steve, you should have dropped this a long time ago. Not because of legal issues or RDR…but because Jo wished it…Jo who has given us all so much freedom as it is…you should have dropped it long ago out of basic human kindness. Sigh.
Corrine, these are little things that not all fans are intimately familiar with that bear reminding/repeating. That happens in every news article, when the information in the article presents information that lacks public but perhaps not very well known information that is known to the reporter. The JKR/WB filing had very little of this. That’s not the case here.
There’s plenty MORE I could add that is not THAT, but is my own experience, and not public information, which is not knowledge that is otherwise available. That is what I specifically did not include.
“the Lexicon does not ‘reproduce’ the Harry Potter Works (or any one of them) in any meaningful sense of the word…”
OH, PLEASE. Did Steve actually say that with a straight face???
BTW, Melissa, you’re doing a really great reporting job. THANK YOU.
to my fellow HP fans at large: gentle friends:
From the screen names that appear in the Lexicon related threaded discussions, its pretty obvious that some closely follow the entire discussion and have throughout, others pop in and out and don’t read carefully, and others appear new to the topic… ok, thats ‘normal’ in any protracted discussion. Yesterday’s discussion re the sudden spate of Lexicon related editorials and interviews brought out some nastiness, despite the fact that—as someone put it (was it professor i?)—the situation smacked of a feint that was designed to coincide with the submission of RDR’s documents to the court….
but, as has been pointed out before, once the issue of the Lexicon went to court, JKR and SVA really don’t matter, the attorneys do. to personalize the discussion is very human—as someone put it about a month ago, to see this sad situation as a battle between JKR and SVA puts human faces on the legal issues. But the fact really is that JKR and SVA are now really on the sidelines, and appropriately both should be very guarded about what they say/write. And we as fans should recognize that fact and not make this a Steve vs Jo issue, or attack either of them as individuals. Instead its RDR vs WB, as represented by their respective legal teams.
And Corrine: Yeah, I’ll absolutely deny I’ve been making any personal feelings about this clear whatsoever. I’ve never once publicly shared my personal feelings on this, and I appreciate that you think you have inferred them but you haven’t gotten them from me. It’ll be better for both of us if neither assumes the other thoughts. :)
Thanks, all, again, for keeping it civil.
Melissa thanks for going over all of the text for us. I’ve read over the filings and I can’t help but feel that Steve and RDR books is completely wasting our time and American tax dollars.
It’s sad to see the books being entered as evidence are not simply relisting of facts as The Lexicon book is, but they are genuine critique and analysis. Any book with literary discussion will retell the facts of the story, but most of the print is the critique. I fear that by focusing so much of the argument on The Lexicon Web site, which Jo has said is fine as people don’t have to pay to use it, the site will suffer. Of course there are many other fine online reference sites for Harry Potter.
I’m also disheartened to see Steve again bringing up the cost of running the web site and the need for ads. If, as Melissa has pointed out, the site has been paid for by Leaky, then what costs are involved? Also, since there are no costs involved in running the site, and if he is correct that 40% of the work on the site is done by others, do they get 40% of the money earned? After all, if Leaky is covering the costs of running the site, then all the money made is going directly into Steve’s pocket. (which might explain his recent live journal post about wanting a VERY expensive toy)
I’ve vowed not to return to that site as I don’t want to give Steve one more penny of support. I’m hoping this case ends and his Lexicon never sees the light of day. Then true fans can go back to the joy of discussing the novels, speculating about The Scottish Book and forget about SVA.
The legal experts supporting RDR and the Lexicon are correct, and I am appalled at how Melissa is doing everything she can to slant this in favor of Rowling. There were whole magazines of unauthorized fannish speculation about Star Trek in the 1970s and 1980s, and Paramount never lifted a finger to stop them, and at least one Tolkien encyclopedia and a volume of professionally published Tolkien fanfiction, criticism, and filk. Who does JK Rowling think she is, that she’s better than JRR Tolkien and Gene Roddenberry?
Also, if Melissa is so clearly on Rowling’s side that she feels compelled to annotate legal briefs, why is she still allowing the Lexicon to piggyback on her website? Isn’t she somehow helping the Lexicon violate her idol’s copyright?
Also, let’s be real: JK Rowling has flat-out lied about her characters, her plots, and her imagery. She’s also contradicted herself about a dozen times in interviews after the last book was published, AND she had the nerve to inflict a poorly edited, contradictory, badly characterized doorstop on her fans last summer. Her “encyclopedia” will only be more of the same, whereas the Lexicon has always done its best to reconcile the books and the interviews. It’ll be far more worthwhile IMHO than anything JK Rowling produces.
Finally: why the Lexicon? And why now? And why does Rowling think that the few thousand copies the Lexicon would sell could possibly have enough of an impact on her sales to damage them? Doesn’t she make enough money? And if she’s so intent on helping Comic Relief, why doesn’t she just assign the royalties from one her books to them in perpetuity? Why is she making herself look so greedy?
Thank you Melissa that was alot of reporting- no worries I learned my lesson yesterday-LOL, but like I said I think this is just sad that SVA is trying to take her idea for this encyclopedia that she was going to give the earnings to chariety, and turn it intio something beneficial for himself. It just reminds me of elementary school when one kid did all the work and the rest just took credit- very unfair- she owns the world she creates and she is not a copyright hog. Those books mentioned above gave something completely new to the table.
The fact is; if you respect JK Rowling and the universe that we enjoy soley because of her, then you should also respect her wishes.
I do not think that this lexicon will hurt the sales of ‘The Scottish Book’ necessarily, but if JKR wants the book to be the only one out there, (because, lets face it, there is and probably never will be a bigger website out there of HP knowledge than the hp-lexicon.org) than that is her wishes, and we, as Harry Potter fans, must respect that. She is the creator, we are the fans. We have no right to claim her universe. It is hers, and she has let us enter her mind.
Steve Vander Ark, I don’t know why you are doing this, I have heard you on PotterCast several time and I believe you are a huge Harry Potter fan and a very smart and talented person. If the reason you are doing this is because of your passion for the universe, or because of more selfish means like money, etc., I don’t know. But please, respect J.K. Rowling’s wishes.
That is, and will always be, my point of view. I have too much admiration for her, and these books have ment too much for me, to ever hurt her or disrespect her in any way. If only that was the way everybody saw this. I do not want to speak badly about either party, but I do not like what Vander Ark is doing here.
- Marte Sofie (Norish_Sophie)
PS: I am sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes. English is not my first language and I am also writing this quite quickly as it upsets me on Jo’s behalf.
Melissa,
I too thank you for keeping us up to date and plowing through all the legalese. As to the comments about your objectivity. I think some readers are “trying” to preform legilimency on you. Goes to show how well muggles can do that!
The last post was annotated where there was additional public information, too, that was not widely reported or perhaps widely known – news posts aren’t just regurgitations. When a significant piece of the puzzle is left out for a legal reason, there’s no reason at all to deny that piece to laypeople seeking the full puzzle. In fact, that’s often a reporter’s job, to connect pieces that haven’t been connected by the story; this was much less necessary on the other side because every last thing was backed up with an exhibit; this was not the case here, and since the idea is to save people having to read the whole thing, it is necessary that that is pointed out. Everything included is fact, none of it commentary. There’s plenty more I could comment on were I so inclined, and plenty of nonfactual things that could be posted as well. :)
There is no slanting needed, were I so inclined; the fans have been nearly 100% in Jo’s favor and since no one can ever ask for 100 percent, those are odds that need no help. But I won’t refrain from using my knowledge to point out obvious points that would otherwise be missed; when it happens on the JKR/WB side it will be noted there, too.
budb: And moreover, the whole legal process is putting off exactly those people in fandom who might have bought the book, and that will probably increase the longer the legal action lasts. So even if RDR wins, which allowing for appeals etc. probably won’t be soon, they may not sell enough copies to cover the cost of the legal action.