Kudos to you, Melissa, for the excellent, detailed job you did at writing this article! I’m so appreciative of all the hard work you’ve done in presenting this legal case.
I very much look forward to reading the book you’ve written on Harry Potter fandom!
hello shinymac, :)
i love melissa and i love leaky (per the end of my post) i actually think it’s fine and dandy if melissa or whoever is making money on hp if it is legal. she has worked hard in analyzing of the hp world. that was my point. i think both melissa (on her book) and steve (at the lexicon) have both worked very hard.
i have nothing but love for them both, that’s all i was saying. :)
it should be noted witch that melissas book is about the harry potter fandom. in it, she explores the history and impact the harry potter fandom has had. it will likely go over fansites, prominent figures in the fandom, and big moments in the harry potter fandom.
it is not a copy paste of the seven harry potter books like the lexicon is.
NottheHBP: It’s about the phenomenon as a whole, and life inside it. Fandom’s certainly a large part of it, but it’s not an intense chronicling of it so much as a depiction of its chief qualities and characteristics and quirks. It’s not an insider fandom book but a general HP phenom book that has, as part of it, a depiction of fandom. And no, there are no worries about copyright with that.
Thanks again, all, for keeping it civil when possible.
hi melissa and all!
i’m a little new to posting so it’s very exciting to have this conversation. :)
melissa, your book sounds awesome and i for one will be thrilled to read it! yea! :)
and hello NotTheHBP, nice to meet you too! :) i agree that RDR has changed tunes as to what they said the book was in the beginning to what it is now, (the whole: is it analyzing or not bit) but oh well, it’s up to the judge to decide all their fates now and try to decipher all this… i really feel for everyone.
i think i’ll quote someone the other day, “it makes me want a butterbeer!”
sorry bout that melissa. I am still really looking forward to read it though.
The main issue here is that RDR Books and Steve Vander Ark is recorded in saying the same thing is saying that now that jk rowling has finished writing harry potter, that it is the fan’s property now. Steve announced as such to hundreds of people at a harry potter convention. RDR Books, as we now know for sure, approched Steve to publish the book. Steve, while I still dislike him now and feel he has done many horrible things, including outright attacked jo claiming she is trying to choke the fandom wrong, the fandom is intact, including the lexicon website, she is trying to stop abuse of her copyrights for personal profit is not caught in the middle of RDR’s squablings with the law.
The case is between a Author who created a entire world and wrote 7 books that are a literary phenomenom both in literal scope of sales, and the impact they had on the world, and a small town vanity publisher created to publish the owners books because no other published apperently would publish them as taken by the extremely poor quality of the books both written and published by the owner of the publishing house, roger rapoport.
RDR Books approched Steve for the purpose of bringing steve in, then profiting off of harry potter. honestly, authors tend to only get 2-5% from the sale of each book, and if they are agented, many agents take 5-10% of that, 15% often for books sold to foriegn markets which pays for the extra cost of working with out of country publishers. Steve may have aggreed for the purpose of giving a print version and not the money, but the fact that RDR contacted him wanting to do it is fairly reliable evidence that RDR did it for profit to capitalize off the success that harry potter has had. no doubt they went to steve because of the lexicon and saw that all the work was practically done so they can rush their version out as quick as possible to be the first.
Steve is along for the ride, but he still is making a few mistakes. RDR Books has now been revealed to be the root of the entire problem. of course steve could have just said no like he should have, but RDR Books didnt care about the lexicon until they saw dollar signs from it, and that is why they clearly went after steve to get him to give them the rights to publish a book version of the lexicon.
Had the book only have been a compilation of the essays on the lexicon, I would not be shocked if jk rowling gave them her blessing immediatly. but they instead, after jo has said for many years that she would be doing a encylopedia, they decided to copy/paste her books, and sell it for profit.
the matter is that there reallly is that the entire lexicon is totally in debt to jk rowling. none of it could exist if she had not created her books and world, all of which was copyrighted. fair uses really only allows the use of copyrighted material for the explicit purpose of making critical commentary of a work. using a sentence here and there to use as a example for making a statement about merits of a work, or its relevances to historical or present issues and views is a good example of what fair uses entails.
fair uses however if my reading of it is correct those not include alphabatising a text and adding in a few facts from the books. the lexicon is basically a website that list things alphabetically with facts from the book, but nothing new to add. alot of the other encylopedias specifically list things then go into detail about things outside the book, such as what myths might have inspired jo, where a name comes from, and other intellectual things. they offten explore literary tradition, and how harry potter conforms to moves away from literary genres and styles.
the lexicon does not do that.
one of the books that RDR is claiming is like the lexicon is in my hand right now. it is a enclopedia or sorts. Fact, Ficton, and Folklore in Harry Potters world. it is a good example of what a companion book encylopedia should be. it lists a great deal alpbetically and explore them both through their role in harry potter and outside. this is why this book has not been sued by jk rowling.
Jo is protecting her work, and the reason she has not sued the other people is because their works do not repackage her world, but add new insight into them. and so, this is why she is sueing the lexicon, which in website form does not add anything, it just is a free website resource for fans. turn it into a profiteering venture, and you are infringing on her copyright.
@ budb, you know I don’t even understand what you said, so whatever, some people are just touchy, I don’t know could you speak in smaller words- Im not stupid but you sound like some Lawyer person that speaks Lawsuit – I even get that language form watching Law and Order. maybe its cause I have a headache. singing ” don’t worry, be happy – don’t worry be happy”
welcome ” a witch ” your not alone I’m fairly new myself, nice to meet you TLC is the best HP website, it keeps info up to date really fast- as I’m sure you noticed. but welcome if you haven’t made a friend I’ll be your friend. Just as long as you don’t take Snape from me – just kiddin- LOL
budb: Message me on the LL, if you’re on there. I’m under the same name. I’ll explain a bit about why so much is public record so that we don’t continue to stray off-topic.
They keep saying the book isn’t going to do any irreparable harm. But it is, it’ll reduce sales of JKR’s encylopedia and reduce the amount of money she can raise for charity, money she will never be able to get back. That is the irreparable harm it does and that is why Jo has chosen to stop publication of this book.
And it WILL reduce sales. To some degree. Casual fans, and friends of hardcore fans who don’t understand the fandom themselves, will buy this book and very likely not buy Jo’s, especially if the Lexicon ends up being cheaper.
And they seem to think that copyright law REVOLVES around the fair use doctrine. It doesn’t. Fair use is a teensy weensy exception. It’s basically only for parodies and news or commentaries. The fact that this book contains direct quotations from the books and is neither parodying, reporting news about Harry Potter, or making any substantial amount of commentary relative to the amount of information taken from the books and reorganised, it’s not acceptable under fair use.
Here are some enlightening statements from Wikipedia about fair use:
Purpose and character
The first factor is about whether the use in question helps fulfill the intention of copyright law to stimulate creativity for the enrichment of the general public, or whether it aims to only “supersede the objects” of the original for reasons of personal profit.
Amount and substantiality
The third factor assesses the quantity or percentage of the original copyrighted work that has been imported into the new work. In general, the less that is used in relation to the whole, e.g., a few sentences of a text for a book review, the more likely that the sample will be considered fair use.
Effect upon work’s value
The fourth factor measures the effect that the allegedly infringing use has had on the copyright owner’s ability to exploit his original work. The court not only investigates whether the defendant’s specific use of the work has significantly harmed the copyright owner’s market, but also whether such uses in general, if widespread, would harm the potential market of the original.
In my opinion, RDR and SVA violate all of these. The “supersede” part is most enlightening. That’s exactly what they’re doing, trying to beat JKR to the punch and get their own encyclopedia out first.
But no-one has ever ordered a cease-and-desist, they say? That’s because the site wasn’t stealing Jo’s charity money, you prat. It was a free resource.
thanks st mel, got it, responded….let me know if you dont get mine
Wow, this is the first time I have sat down and really read into all this RDR books issue. I can’t believe RDR’s arguments. They seem to be using the fact that the Lexicon is well received by fans/Scholastic/WB/EA etc. as supprt for there case, when in fact they are the very people against the case. Just because we support(ed) the Lexicon and liked it as a website, doesn’t mean that fans are happy to go against Jo’s wishes, and see the book in print.
That was absolutely amazing: I learned a lot. This is an intersting case, as all that relate to the first amendment are. I await the turnout. Thanks for keeping me updated!
Sorry to go a little off topic, but sincerely I don’t believe SVA and RDR stand a chance so… Onto more interesting things: Melissa please, please, please give us an update on your book. Let us know when its projected publishing date is, or how it’s coming along, or something! And are you planning a tour? If you are you have to come to central Florida so you can sign my copy when I buy it and I can cherish it forever along with my HP books and DVDs! Maybe you can come here to Orlando and ask WB to get you into Universal’s Islands of Adventure to see construction of the Wizarding World of HP! Also, you could make a section here on Leaky about your book! Ok, ok, I’ll stop smothering you with my requests :-P but please give us a more info! THANKS A LOT!
This was one hulleva piece of legalese to digest! Good grief Melisa, you’re a SAINT for going through all the tedious documents (and horrib jargon to boot). Thank you so much.
I don’t think I need to add anything new, many in previous posts have pointed out the essentials. I do care about this matter and am following closely. Am too appalled to write anything coherent right now…
I’d say for the diehard HPL fans, if you really like it just print the thing of and have it binded! That’s cheap and you get what you want a printed copy… But please understand that profiting from it otherwise, is just not for RDR or SVA to benefit from.