In The News
Lexicon Trial Updates and Important Announcement about Floo Network
FlooWe owe quite a few updates tonight, and there is an important announcement following (since the information in this post is vital to that announcement, so make sure to read the whole thing):
Update:: Agence France-Presse says JKR will be a witness.
Firstly, the April 14 trial in the JKR/WB vs. RDR Books case will be a bench trial, meaning that there will be no jury. A witness list is due by April 4.
Secondly, Steve Vander Ark of the Harry Potter Lexicon gave an interview recently to BlogHogwarts, which Alejandro of BlogHogwarts kindly sent to us in the original English (it was translated to Spanish for the site):
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“Do you think that, if Lexicon wins the case, the Harry Potter fansites are going to be affected in any way(Lexicon Online included)?
A victory for RDR Books will protect the rights of fans to create based on someone else’s work. If RDR Books loses, copyright holders will be given broad new control over fan activity, control which will allow them to shut down sites, stop authors from writing about their works, etc. So a win for RDR Books is definitely in the best interest of fans who create websites, write fanfiction, make wands, compose wizard rock, and so on. I am surprised how many fans have missed this point. Their freedom to create is on the line here.
How many pages does the Lexicon book have?The Lexicon book will have around 400 pages. It’s 160,000 words. The book has four authors. I am the main author, but three of my Lexicon editors worked on the book as well.
If the Lexicon is published, once the Scottish Book gets out, will you still update Lexicon Online and Book?
I’m as excited to buy Rowling’s Scottish book as anyone! It will be very different from the Lexicon book, with a lot of new and exciting information which only Rowling can provide. I will continue to update the Lexicon website. I love working on the Lexicon and will do so even if I have no staff and even when people don’t read Harry Potter much anymore. Beyond that, I have written another book, called In Search of Harry Potter, which will be published in July. I’m starting on another one as well. I intend this series of books to comprise a complete independent reference library to Harry Potter. The second and third books will not generate the kind of legal concern that the Lexicon book has, thankfully.
Do you consider that your fanatism or admiration to J.K. Rowling is less now after all that have happened?
My admiration for the Harry Potter books is as great as ever. I’m still a huge fan. I’m also still a fan of Rowling, although I think her current actions are unfortunate and badly advised. I still admire her as a writer and a person and I don’t expect that to change just because she and I have a disagreement over a legal issue. Friends can disagree and still be friends.”
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And finally, we have a very important and related announcement regarding the status of the Floo Network.
The following is an announcement that contains commentary.
The interview quoted above contains a number of assessments about J.K. Rowling’s intentions and what the Lexicon case means for fandom as a whole. The comments sat uneasily with many of us as soon as we learned about them, and prompted a discussion among our entire staff about Leaky’s association with the Harry Potter Lexicon, in which it became overwhelmingly clear that Steve’s thoughts on this matter and ours differ so greatly as to be polar opposites; we do not think a win for J.K. Rowling means tighter controls on fan creativity at all, and are concerned for the opposite, as well as the attempt to misportray the issues of the case as stated in sworn affadavits. So, after a few days of careful and many-sided discussion, we, as a full staff, decided that people who have such a fundamental disconnect in beliefs cannot and should not be partners in name or spirit, and two days ago informed the Lexicon that we are severing our association.
There were many who called for this since the day the lawsuit was filed, and on many occasions since, but we decided to wait to make the final decision until we were able to shake out more about the case and the beliefs of the parties involved. Now that it has been made clear to us that the Lexicon’s leader and we disconnect on such a fundamental level regarding fandom, it would be disingenuous to continue calling ourselves partners.
We had intended not to make this decision until the case was completed, so as to not sway public opinion. The comments in question, however, combined with the suit’s history and revelations therein, make us too uneasy to continue affiliation for a moment longer. We had also wanted to refrain from offering commentary on the case, but we all agree that if it meant the continued propagation of comments against our beliefs by someone so visibly associated with us, silence could not be maintained.
That it was a fully supported decision doesn’t mean it wasn’t very hard for this staff, who have for so long considered the Lexicon an ally in all things. The staff was sobered and saddened to find itself walking so uniformly toward this decision, even knowing it was the right one. We have enjoyed an excellent five years as a member of the Floo Network, and don’t regret that time for a moment. We wish everyone associated with the Lexicon health and happiness in the future.
We plan to retain strong affiliations with Accio Quote, though how it would manifest depends on some future decisionmaking, as things are slightly upended right now. This decision in no way affects the regard and admiration we continue to have for Lisa Bunker and her staff, or for Belinda Hobbs and the work she has done on the main Floo page; we hope to remain closely associated with them and their sites. In addition we strenuously discourage anyone from taking frustration for this decision out on any associated staff members, of the Lexicon or any other site. This was not a decision based on hate and hurt, it was rooted in the sad realization that we are much too different now to remain partners.
As for what this means, more functionally: This essentially means the Floo Network has been dismantled, as the network would be, then, Leaky projects and Accio Quote, and that’s more a partnership than a network. (We will sort out what to do with the main Floo page, and its content, as well.) There have been many asking, since November, whether Steve would return to PotterCast: That answer is now no. And while Leaky has always owned the hp-lexicon.org domain and paid for the site’s hosting, we’ve promised to transfer the domain to Steve as soon as litigation is complete (a stipulation that would not have been made had ownership not been mentioned in court documents). We will continue to pay for hosting and provide free support until that day.
This has been very emotional and trying for the staff here so we hope you’ll forgive our little foray into the commentary area. Since people are by nature opinionated, and we are all human, we wanted to keep the personal opinions we all have separate from the pages here, which is why after the first few weeks of figuring out what was going on with this case, we began to stick to linking to and summarizing court documents and other publicly available pieces, and trying to ask further questions to clear up misconceptions when they occurred. The rationale there is that if it’s publicly available there’s an easy check on its accuracy, and goodness knows our users are nothing if not close readers. We have been mentioned time and again in these proceedings, which makes us involved to a certain, small extent; therefore the coverage will continue to be simple linking-to and explaining-in-layman’s-terms legal documents, so you can easily read them yourself if there’s ever any doubt what we say is true. That said, we don’t expect any significant public documents until reports start surfacing of the April 14 trial; there might be a few article updates and more interviews, but mostly we are waiting for the courtroom proceedings to occur. As usual, we’ll keep you updated to the best of our ability.
Thank you for understanding, and as always, we thank you in advance for your civility and respect to each other in the comments.
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Hi Nina,
Steve Vander Ark was saying in the interview that he is fighting the lawsuit with his publishers RDR Books because he wants to win, what he calls, a victory for fans to be able to make their own content based on someone else’s work, which is copyrighted by law. Steve feels that if JKR wins the lawsuit, fans won’t be able to have fansites with content (i.e. stories, information, ideas) based on someone’s work, so that’s not just meaning Harry Potter, but any sort of copyrighted work, from a kids’ book to a famous movie to a tv show to whatever. (Altho to be honest, as my media law lecturer once explained to me – if you write something yourself, make a copy and post it to yourself, that’s counted as a copyright, basically meaning, everything you make belongs to you and it’s your right alone to decide what is done with it).
But Leaky disagrees with this, so it makes sense that they don’t want to be seen to be supporting him when they don’t agree with his reasons for doing this and have been associated with him enough already due to the Floo Network.
Hope this helps.
can somebody help me understand this?Like, what was he saying? I’m sorry, I dont understand the whole legal jargon=/
Posted by nina on March 24, 2008 @ 09:04 PM
What specifically do you not understand, nina?
WOW….up to 16 screens of lively discussion. Thanks to the Leaky staff for the information and for explaining TLC’s position. You have inspired such an interesting topic today. While I hope JKR will prevail in protecting her “baby” I have been given so many points to consider. How much fun would this be face to face.
I both agree and disagree with Jo and Steve. I can kinda see how they would not want him to be on Pottercast. I know TLC is worried about being associated with the Lexicon but I am surprised that are severing all ties and pretty much disbanding the Floo network. Though I really do love how the fans are acting like they are still in middle school with their comments. But I guess people are predictable like that.
@ Miss Freewind: Are you referring to the comments here on Leaky, or are you referring to comments at another site? I’m not being sarcastic, I’m actually asking.
I think that the comments here have been, for the most part, mature and responsible. There have been a couple of rather juvenile remarks, which is bound to happen on a site with such a large readership, but I think most people have behaved well.
This is truly a sad occasion. It is unfortunate that Steve Vander Ark and RDR books have created a situation where Jo Rowling (a talented woman whose works we as a fandom collectively love) is backed into a corner and her generosity towards fanfiction and the like is forced to be questioned. Therefore I applaud the Leaky staff for not only making this brave decision in an admirable and professional manner but also for giving the vast majority of the HP fandom public a voice against their actions and opinions. It is necessary to take a stand against becoming associated with Mr. Vander Ark’s, ’ ...fans who create websites, write fanfiction, make wands, compose wizard rock, and so on.’ and his disillusions of protecting our ‘best interests’ and ‘creative freedom’ when in reality all he has succeeded in accomplishing is putting those interestes and freedoms in jeopardy. In the past I have always approved and respected the way The Leaky Cauldron and its staff have handled themselves and this website and now is no exception. I am proud of the difficult decision you have made and I am grateful to you for making thousands of other voices heard. Congratulations and Thank-you.
I agree with your decision, and cannot understand why the Lexicon couldn’t just publish a book of their original essays. Of course, then you would have authors wanting a cut of that too. The internet is so huge, someone has to take control of some portion of it when it affects them personally.
When you create a work that becomes so huge fans want to write about it, you have affected many lives deeply. Look at all the other shows that have fanzines and fan fiction. (Need I mention the huge Star Trek and Star Wars fandoms?) I hope this doesn’t affect all the fan sites and fiction, and just remains a book publishing issue.
Hey guys, just wanted to give my support and cyber hug for making the decision you did. I know it must have been tough and I’m really proud of the way you guys have handled it. You make Harry Potter fans everywhere proud to be associated with you :)
Leaky team, I know this must have been a terribly hard decision to make, but I agree with several others in saying that, sadly, it is one that had to be made. Thank you for acting with kindness and dignity in this whole messy situation. You have my, and many others, support. :) * hugs *
I can’t even imagine what kind of distress this is causing Jo. I KNOW she loves her fans, and it makes me sad when she has to deal with ridiculous situations such as this. I hope things get sorted out as quickly as possible, I will keep everyone in my prayers.
@mary-ann, thank you very much! I didn’t have my contacts in, and all of the words got all jumbled, so thats why it didnt make any sense…..it was just my extremely poor eyesight. and leaky, your awesome, and I support you 100%
=]
I’m going to go out on a limb here and support Steve. I know a decent amount about Intellectual Property law, are, really, this is completely absurd. Countless other have profited off of Jo’s work by publishing their own books; how many DH prediction books were out on the market? Should Jo sue Emerson Spartz (not me) for having an un-Godly amount of advertising on MuggleNet and making a six-figure income from it?
Wow, I must say I saw this coming, but its still shocking nonetheless. I think you made the right decision and will continue to support it.
Keep up the good work guys!!
@ Chiron:
You’ll find quite a few fans who have quite happily stopped using the HPL, including myself. Quite frankly it is not the be all, end all of HP fan sites. There are several sites that are much, much more detailed AND not anywhere near as dull to read. It was very easy to move on.
As for Rowling and WB, they’re free to frequent or use any website they so choose.
What I find interesting is the blatant RDR rhetoric that your comment repeats, which is continued confusion between the site and the proposed book. This is one of the very obvious complaints that Rowling and WB have alleged, that RDR and others would conflate the book/site, and you’ve just proven their point.
This suit is NOT about the fan site. It’s about Steve STEALING Rowling’s copyrighted works and writing a HIGHLY INFRINGING derivative book.
This is also NOT about TLC turning their back on Steve. It’s about how Steve continues to speak and act in a manner that is the complete antithesis of what TLC owner/staffers believe and are unable to continue ignoring.
It wasn’t an easy decision for Rowling and WB to initiate this lawsuit. They tried to work this out. Steve and his publishers didn’t want to talk.
It also wasn’t an easy decision for TLC to break ties and dissolve the Floo Network. They too have tried to talk this out with Steve.
You want to blame someone for this continued debacle, look to Steve Vander Ark.
You’ll find the majority of fans support Rowling/WB as opposed to Steve; you’ll also find fans who wholeheartedly, yet sadly, support TLC’s decision.
“Should Jo sue Emerson Spartz (not me) for having an un-Godly amount of advertising on MuggleNet and making a six-figure income from it?”
I wish she would!!! All of that advertising is disgusting.
@Chiron
I’ve actually found it a joy to stop using the Lexicon. I didn’t even do it consciously, I just now realized I haven’t used it months, even though I have been in need of quotes. I now just use other sites or go directly to my books.
You can’t even copy and paste from the Lexicon as the right click function does has been disabled there. It seems Steve didn’t want anyone stealing his “hard work.” Well, what do you think you’re doing to Jo, Steve? Heck, I don’t even think he had a right to disable the right click function, except maybe on the essays.
@ Spartzy:
If you know so much about IP then you’d know that using someone else’s work {to the tune of 84% of copyrighted materials to just 16% of Steve’s ‘original content’ } is an absolutely horrifying amount of infringement.
You’d also know the difference between simply selling ad space on one’s site {as many fan sites do} and selling the contents from the site that are copyrighted to someone else {as the fictional facts of Harry Potter listed on the HPL belong to Rowling}.
Support Steve, heaven knows he needs some supporters. But don’t for a moment believe the bilge that RDR and the defense attorney’s are spewing. This is very much about stealing someone else’s work and trying to pass it off as their own.
Oh, I forgot to add that as for the WB and Jo not using the online Lexicon anymore, they technically own everything on it. Particularly Jo as the Lexicon wouldn’t exist without her hard work and creative mind. Besides, she has something much better to turn to: her personal notebooks. And WB has Jo to turn to. I think I’ve even heard Yates say that Evanna (who plays Luna) is practically a walking HP encyclopedia. Come to think of it, so are half of us here. The only difference between us and Steve is he bothered to organize it all. Anyone of us could have done the same with a little html knowledge, a keyboard, and copies of the books. He’s nothing special. He’s just a fan…a fan who happens to have an enormous ego.
Well, the days are coming, Amy S – that’s what this lawsuit is about. The internet is wild and is walking all over corporate rights. As we might remember just a few years ago – we were banned from using ANY graphics from the films on websites (remember how we used to be threatened with lawsuits in those days?) until Warner realized that they had a bonanza exploiting the “fan sites” for marketing their product. I feel sorry for these young people working at Leaky – in a few years they will figure out what’s happening – but they are rather enamored by the attention, you can tell listening to the podcasts.
These are the wild wild west days of the freedom on the internet but with lawsuits like this one by Time Warner against a fan – we should read the writing on the wall. To say anything less is to be naive. Leaky needs to separate themselves from the Lexicon because they could also at risk if the Warner lawsuit is successful – and even more at risk if the threats issued in the press by Jo Rowling are accurate. It’s a very very sad time.
I think we are beginning to understand why Jo Rowling wrote about horcruxes – much the same way she wrote about dementors. She is writing from personal experience. When you get famous and you sell your creative product to a corporation, you do sell a bit of your soul. That she would sue, or at least have her name on the suit against one of her most famous fans (as though he was really a threat – come on, give me a break) is a way of splitting your soul. I think I finally now feel sorry for her. She’s young too – and rather exploited in all this as well – and by an American corporation.
TimeWaner is facing some difficult financial challenges right now. The old methods aren’t working like they used to and the internet is one of the major problems they are having gaining control over the communication of their products. The whole legal field of intellectual property is exploding. The Lexicon is on the frontline – which is a major reason Stanford took the case.
Very very sad.
Sorry, comments are closed for this article.
Leaky Poll
Moving the HBP film to July 2009 is:
- Completely unforgivable15 (46%)
- Annoying, but I'll get over it11 (34%)
- Not something I care about.1 (3%)
- Cool; who wants to go to the movies in the winter anyway?1 (3%)
- Awesome! I get to save $10 until next year.0 (0%)
- Awesome! I get to save $10 because now I'm skipping this movie!3 (9%)
- I've made a Facebook group, started a protest, called my local councilman, staged a sit-in, started a boycott, and organized a million-fan march because we won't stand for the - wait, what was this about again?1 (3%)
Anyone who disassociates themselves from the lexicon ought not quote from it. So start opening your own books and start looking up your own facts. That includes Ms. Rowling and WB.