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OH my freakin’ god. I’m so sorry Melissa, yet again we’ve received a grossly misinformed and immaturely written article. How dare Steve say those things, too…this is getting worse and worse. : ( Maybe if Steve actually contributed some of his intellect to his book, rather than taking 91 freaking % of Jo’s, he wouldn’t be in this effing situation! The jealous Lockhart-a-like! He makes me so MAD!

Oh, waaaaaah, Steve! Could you play “poor me” a little bit longer? Jo is okay with Melissa’s book because she’s apparently going to be doing some actual writing rather than copying and he has the cajones to make a comment about how he’s no longer in Jo’s good graces? Spare us the melodrama, Steve! I have actually never been to Steve’s site because when I heard it was basically a dictionary I figured that would be kind of boring. Now, I’m sure I haven’t missed a thing.

Jessie: Lockhart-a-like! Ha! That’s funny, as well as being accurate! :)

I think that most of these writers are too blind to realize that SVA wasn’t all that popular even BEFORE this controversy! The man was a pompous fool who thought he was a God of all things Harry Potter when he doesn’t know much more than the average Leaky viewer! Unlike the people who work to run real, interactive fansite sites, all this guy has done from the start was collect HP information from the books and outside contributors to bolster his own reputation!

And making jabs at Melissa only shows me that this man will say pretty much anything to get sympathy from members of the public who perhaps don’t understand the HP community as well.

That pathetic excuse for a fan is attacking Melissa now? How immature. “Rowling is God and Melissa is her prophet?” Honestly. It’s surprising that anyone can take his side.

”...Tim Wu wants to be one of those popular law professors who is interviewed by the media about all sorts of controversies. He believes he can influence the law, including copyright rules, by “popularizing” issues. That way people can see through all the technical, legal arguments and get to the “right” answer, which is of course his own answer.” Posted by arthurh on May 06, 2008 @ 09:24 PM

“If I was mean and sarcastic (which I am) I might suggest a fund be set up to buy a lifetime supply of pacifiers for SVA.” Posted by PB&J Rules on May 06, 2008 @ 09:31 PM

“I think that most of these writers are too blind to realize that SVA wasn’t all that popular even BEFORE this controversy!” Posted by Belle on May 06, 2008 @ 09:46 PM

I just had to reprint those three quotes as they are three of the funniest (and true) quotes I have read since this debate started. LOL clapping my hands. Classic, classic stuff.

Several Diverse Points:

First off, I would like to clarify that I am not, and never have been a fan of SVA or RDR books. If SVA actually made the comments as printed in this article, he lost the little bit of respect I had for him. Having said that, on to my points:

Tim Wu is not actually with the New Yorker magazine, as this posting seems to imply. Rather, he’s a copyright professor at Columbia Law School. The article he wrote was PUBLISHED in the New Yorker, certainly, but that doesn’t mean that he’s OF the New Yorker. If you’re going to rake others over the coals for not being accurate, perhaps you should be a bit more careful with your own words. If I hadn’t know already who Tim Wu was, I’d have thought by reading the beginning of this post that he was employed by the New Yorker.

No one but SVA and his former school actually know why he was asked to leave his position. Please don’t be so quick to assume that he fudged his credentials. It’s silly to jump to conclusions when you don’t know all the facts. It also might leave you open to a lawsuit for libel. (Not very likely, but possible.)

Finally, is there a way to read the comments here without having to scroll down past the main article for each page? If there is, I haven’t been able to find it, and I’m getting a bit tired of scrolling past the article on every page of comments.

Yeah they should write Tim Wu FOR the new yorker instead of “of.” yeah,t hat’s the same thing as misquoting someone in an inflammatory fashion. exact same thing. eyeroll.

Kristin,

Thanks for changing the wording at the beginning of the post. Hopefully, it will help avoid any confusion.

Well, since there are 13 pages to this I am certain no one will actually read all of what I am saying, but I would like to join in the venting of the frustration that is SVA.

@Belle agreed, before this suit I didn’t even know what SVA stood for or what it was, I thought the Lexicon was a website of fans collaborating on piecing together all of the information from the series. I thought that because it was so poorly organized and put togther, I am sorry I work with procedures for a living and organization is just a huge neurosis of mine. I thought some kids were putting it together, so I discerned what I could of some of the character build up for a day and I never returned to the site. I find the fans at Leaky to be far more helpful, but I am sure others utilized the website far more than I.

Additionally the professors at the univerisities, such as Stanford who is supporting SVA, and now Columbia are usually quite liberal, I am actually more liberal than conservative so hear me out, therefore their opinions on this piece are already biased and should be read as such. In general, the professors usually vouch for anything that will give more freedoms to literary writings and naturally than oppose anything that would constitute an impingement of said freedoms. Any professor who tells you different is a liar, statistical speaking that’s how they see it.

Furthermore, don’t rule out that their personal statements will obviously receive a lot of readings from fans, with which prior to their brief affiliation of HP we wouldn’t even know who they were. Don’t mention a thumbs up to another university such as Stanford could benefit their university or themselves.

And in regards to SVA I’ve really tried to be respectful, but I think it’s best if the lawsuit gets settled and SVA sees a mental health professional. He seems unbalanced and clutching to anyother world that doesn’t remind him of reality. And c’mon who here wasn’t captivated by the HP series. And JKR as God, perhaps, he needs to re-read the series and it’s religious affiliations. Does JKR have a lot of pull, yes, someone with billions of dollars and best selling novels generally do. But at least she has given us a positive role model, as have the trio of the film HP, I mean how often do we get that type? Poor JKR one mention of religion in your books and everyone writes that you think of yourself as a god.

@iamminerva

Just my two cents about the Lexicon website: Because I’m a Potter fan who loves to hash over the details of the books with my sister (and online), I’ve found the Lexicon website to be an awesome resource. It’s not meant to be read like a novel: it’s a reference tool. You use it when you want to remember what Fleur’s parents’ names are, or whether or not we know that Stan Shunpike went to Hogwarts, or how old Viktor Krum is, or how to pronounce “Pius Thicknesse,” or whatever. So, I think the website is really useful, and impressively detailed. But if you’re not the kind of fan who often comes up with questions like that, then it probably won’t do too much for you. (The proposed book is another matter entirely, because not everything on the website made it into the book.)

Sorry…corrections I meant infringement and instead of “Don’t” I meant Not to…lol I am tired.

Also my comments about SVA are not in regards to this article but previous ones and some of his statements he has made regarding the fan community. Additionally, an article stated previous to HP he was enwrapped in Star Trek…not that it’s bad or anything, there’s a fan and there’s obsessive bordering on loss of reality. As has been documented by some lone crazed fans attacking their idols, others suing for outrageous claims, and it’s similar to a disorder that children who play too many videogames for too long out of the day exhibit. So please don’t take this as inflammatory, I sincerely believe he needs to see someone, because I think he shows some of these warning symptoms.

Well, I have used the Harry Potter Lexicon website and I still do !! Does that make me a lesser HPfan?? I like the HP books, I like Mrs Rowling, the author of the books, but I do not love Mrs Rowling, as a person, I do not know her, so why should I have to love her?? Does that make me a lesser HPfan?? It took me more than a month to read the first HPbook in english, because I needed a dictionnary translating English to Dutch, and no HPbook in Dutch translation was already available at that time. When the Lexicon was created a few years later, to me it was a great help. This lawsuit is all about copyrights, but that is not what I have read in most of the postings here about this trial. Most people here say, that Rowling should win this lawsuit, afterall she spent several years to create it , she has the right to protect her HPworld. But what I do not understand is : why did she sell her precious world to Warner Bross? Why all the merchandizing?? Why the theme parc?? The Lexibook and the Scottish book are two completely different books, the first is a dictionary , the second is an encyclopedia, there is room for both. And for those who believe nothing will change for those writing fanfics if WB and JKR win, think twice!! Have you all allready forgotten WB wanted websites with registrated domainnames taken from the HPworld to be returned to them?? Maybe Mrs Rowling wants fansites to remain, does WB wants that too?? And what about the warning Mrs Rowling gave us in an interview after her testomony at the trial in case she should loose ?? Perhaps no Scottish book at all ! Is that fair in regard to the HPfans all over the world?

@HPfanBelgium:

I don’t know if you listen to PotterCast, but in last week’s episode they answered a question from a listener about what WB might do. Basically, the conclusion was that they wouldn’t dare try that again as they received such bad PR. Also, they have enough bad PR with the suit, so they won’t try anything like that. Now, as for other creators, who knows?

@ copperhead “On the other hand, it would be rather annoying if you drilled a water well and laid a driveway across my property, then tried to encourage me that it is somehow useful to me as well.” “Revised version of Harry Potter years 1-7” So beautifully articulated, this is exactly the points I was trying to make, and how hilarious to boot.

@Trosa leave prophet, god, infidel out of the argument it’s too heated and takes away from the actually meaning of your argument. If you want to use those words, I recommended backing it up with proof or an example of what you mean. Additionally I think the reason, at least what I’ve gathered from posters, is their lashing out at someone who not only lashed out at JKR, but to the entire fandom in general…as if we are Jo’s Army that works at her will. I think we have every right to discuss it, however, I do believe somethings are getting far too heated and if you are arguing a point please back it up with some proof…and I do this doesn’t suffice unless like Elizabeth you can start taking apart some of the legal terms and dumming it down for us simple folk.

Also to the multiple posters who have stated that we “fandom” in general shouldn’t make comments about these things, because we aren’t authors ourselves. 1) Being author doesn’t mean you know more about copyright than we do. 2) And what have you done lately that deludes you into believing your opinion matters more than mine, or anyone elses, and that you are the one who thinks apart, individualistically, from the rest of the fandom.

@HPfanBelgium hello: Agreed about the fan park and WB, my boyfriend actually works for them and I am telling you it’s like Disney they are business monsters. However to respect their job, it’s to sell their characters for as much as they can pinch us for, and their not holding a gun to my head to make me go or increasing taxes to pay for the construction. So, basically, I actually want the theme park…it looks like it could be quite fantastic. Additionally JKR sold some character rights, but she still retains full control over how they are used, for what purpose, etc, etc…that’s why JKR sits in meetings with the Producers/Screenwriters/Directors, because she has the authority of a producer if she wants something added it’s added, removed from script it’ll be done…Kreacher with OoTP is an example. To sell all her rights would have been foolish, as WB could have done whatever they wanted to with the name Harry Potter. WB is also acting, by contract, as her legal protection. Just as JKR said in the stand some books were approved by “her” people, but she never read the book, that’s because they act on her behalf, she’s entrusted them with her legal affairs regarding Harry Potter. JKR is named within the lawsuit, because she still has rights to Harry Potter. If any of this doesn’t make sense let me know, because I made my boyfriend repeat it multiple times when all this started so I understood what all of it meant…he can back it up with resources, but I trusted him to tell me, so I don’t know them off the top of my head. So in answer to your question about WB restricting fansites, no, they have no legal barring whatsoever; JKR could have if had chosen to originally. That’s the issue is what was once allowed on-line allowed for distribution for profit, the lexicon website.

Moreover, JKR was making a statement on the first day of trial how distraught she was over the Lexicon, because the lawyers had brought up that they were once friendly. JKR stated that she has had difficulty writing because of this tension and she didn’t want to force the material, she stated something in regards to inhibiting her creative mind. JKR didn’t turn to the judge and say if he wins then I’m not writing my “scottish book.” Don’t worry, she has lots of information saved up, I’m sure sooner or later we will see something. And it’s not if there’s room for both of the books, it’s if one of the books is profitting off of the work another, and what has to be proven in court is that SVA/RDR knew of the planned companion book and whether or not a planned companion book is sufficient enough to meet the fair use criteria. JKR’s not just protecting herself she’s protecting all creative writers from such infringements of use, and protecting the fans from purchasing something that ought to have remained free. Hope that helps, if it needs clarifying let me know, as I’m rambling.

In all honesty, even if the Lexicon book is allowed and published I will make a movement within my school and bookstores to ensure that they don’t have it available, and I will never ever buy it. It not only ripped off JKR, it would rip off the fans that helped make it.

Jealousy. That is all that is needed to lash out on Melissa. The trial is not about any other fan but mister VanderArk himself. And the fact that he has made himself unpopular with this trial, has nothing to do with Melissa or anyone from TLC.

@Ginny :

Thank you for your kind explanation. . I understand Mrs Rowling wants to protect her creation, to me that is a normal reaction. By trying to read the HP books, I was forced to learn english, so I am gratefull to Mrs Rowling and I thank her for it. But I also thank the HPLexicon, because due to the Lexicon I had better understanding of the HP world created by Mrs Rowling. You should know that a lot of the typical atmosphere Mrs Rowling created in her books is lost in the dutch translated books, as not only the story is translated but also most of the names of persons, places, spells and so on. The Lexicon is just a dictionnary, due to the explanation given for the different names , I understood better the atmosphere Mrs Rowling wanted to create, off course every word explained , is a word belonging to the HPworld, and maybe it is not useful to you, native english speaking HPfans, but it is to others and to my knowledge it is the only in his kind at the moment. That is why I do not understand why Mrs Rowling is so against the Lexibook . People , here at the site are talking about a simple “cut and paste” , but I have to say, it is really more than that. And off course, it is not 100% accurate, but there are also mistakes in the original HP book. I also think it is not possible to write a HP dictionnary without quoting the original . Anyway, I find this lawsuit a very sad thing to have happened, what ever the judge may decide, there will be no winner, people who used to share the same passion are now calling each other names. And why do have the feeling that we own this situation to WB?? Why do I have the feeling WB dragged Mrs Rowling on a path she did not want to go ??

The Harry Potter Lexicon was the first Harry Potter website I ever discovered and yet, I’ve never seen Steve as this important part of the fandom. I would only attribute the quasi-celebrity status to certain staff of Mugglenet and Leaky.

Was I under a rock or something?

I’ll preface my post by saying I know nothing about the finer points of law – and also, though I’ve been following the case from the beginning on Leaky and have read a lot of the comments, I haven’t read them all – so I may end up repeating what someone else said, and if so, I apologize.

It seems to me that once a book does not give commentary or analysis, it is no longer a book “about” Harry Potter, but as an encyclopedia or lexicon, it is a book that would “represent” Harry Potter. So, as something that would represent the Harry Potter series, having had to use so many direct quotes, it seems like it should fall into some new category – not just be argued over whether it falls into fair use, because without the original content, it doesn’t seem to fit that category.

Has anyone brought up that, other than books, all Harry Potter merchandise has to be licensed? So when something, even a book – so long as it does not give a significant amount of commentary or analysis, wishes to represent Harry Potter and be marketed to the public, shouldn’t it be subject to licensing like any other product?

I guess that’s what I don’t quite understand… why people can still argue that the lexicon book in its current form can be fair use – when so much of its content is made up of direct quotes. I can see how it could be used as a reference, but that alone doesn’t seem to make it eligible to be published without permission from the copyright holders, when there is not a significant amount of new material provided by SVA. The book is not “about” Harry Potter – it “is” Harry Potter as it is material straight from the original books. So, though there could be worth in the Lexicon book, it seems like something that needs to be licensed in order to be sold.

Just my thoughts – not taking much in the way of law into it.

I too used the lexicon periodically to remind myself about a tidbit here or there. Unfortunately, after finding a few inaccuracies I decided I was better served finding it on my own. As a librarian SVA is mildly adequate. He alphabetizes and categorizes fairly well. He needs to do a little more study into ALA (American Library Association) standards in re: attribution.

As to Mr. Wu: He should do a little more research in Bullfinch. SVA is more Narcissus than Arachne. He made the mistake of falling in love with his own reflection. Unfortunately, he has no Echo to pine for him.

Mr. Wu should also have done a little more research on the subject of Melissa’s book. He would have clearly seen that there is no comparison between the two. He should also have listened to the Pottercast more closely…he too could use a lesson in attribution. But perhaps that was not the purpose of his article?