Sorry…corrections I meant infringement and instead of “Don’t” I meant Not to…lol I am tired.
Also my comments about SVA are not in regards to this article but previous ones and some of his statements he has made regarding the fan community. Additionally, an article stated previous to HP he was enwrapped in Star Trek…not that it’s bad or anything, there’s a fan and there’s obsessive bordering on loss of reality. As has been documented by some lone crazed fans attacking their idols, others suing for outrageous claims, and it’s similar to a disorder that children who play too many videogames for too long out of the day exhibit. So please don’t take this as inflammatory, I sincerely believe he needs to see someone, because I think he shows some of these warning symptoms.
Well, I have used the Harry Potter Lexicon website and I still do !! Does that make me a lesser HPfan?? I like the HP books, I like Mrs Rowling, the author of the books, but I do not love Mrs Rowling, as a person, I do not know her, so why should I have to love her?? Does that make me a lesser HPfan?? It took me more than a month to read the first HPbook in english, because I needed a dictionnary translating English to Dutch, and no HPbook in Dutch translation was already available at that time. When the Lexicon was created a few years later, to me it was a great help. This lawsuit is all about copyrights, but that is not what I have read in most of the postings here about this trial. Most people here say, that Rowling should win this lawsuit, afterall she spent several years to create it , she has the right to protect her HPworld. But what I do not understand is : why did she sell her precious world to Warner Bross? Why all the merchandizing?? Why the theme parc?? The Lexibook and the Scottish book are two completely different books, the first is a dictionary , the second is an encyclopedia, there is room for both. And for those who believe nothing will change for those writing fanfics if WB and JKR win, think twice!! Have you all allready forgotten WB wanted websites with registrated domainnames taken from the HPworld to be returned to them?? Maybe Mrs Rowling wants fansites to remain, does WB wants that too?? And what about the warning Mrs Rowling gave us in an interview after her testomony at the trial in case she should loose ?? Perhaps no Scottish book at all ! Is that fair in regard to the HPfans all over the world?
@HPfanBelgium:
I don’t know if you listen to PotterCast, but in last week’s episode they answered a question from a listener about what WB might do. Basically, the conclusion was that they wouldn’t dare try that again as they received such bad PR. Also, they have enough bad PR with the suit, so they won’t try anything like that. Now, as for other creators, who knows?
@ copperhead “On the other hand, it would be rather annoying if you drilled a water well and laid a driveway across my property, then tried to encourage me that it is somehow useful to me as well.” “Revised version of Harry Potter years 1-7” So beautifully articulated, this is exactly the points I was trying to make, and how hilarious to boot.
@Trosa leave prophet, god, infidel out of the argument it’s too heated and takes away from the actually meaning of your argument. If you want to use those words, I recommended backing it up with proof or an example of what you mean. Additionally I think the reason, at least what I’ve gathered from posters, is their lashing out at someone who not only lashed out at JKR, but to the entire fandom in general…as if we are Jo’s Army that works at her will. I think we have every right to discuss it, however, I do believe somethings are getting far too heated and if you are arguing a point please back it up with some proof…and I do this doesn’t suffice unless like Elizabeth you can start taking apart some of the legal terms and dumming it down for us simple folk.
Also to the multiple posters who have stated that we “fandom” in general shouldn’t make comments about these things, because we aren’t authors ourselves. 1) Being author doesn’t mean you know more about copyright than we do. 2) And what have you done lately that deludes you into believing your opinion matters more than mine, or anyone elses, and that you are the one who thinks apart, individualistically, from the rest of the fandom.
@HPfanBelgium hello: Agreed about the fan park and WB, my boyfriend actually works for them and I am telling you it’s like Disney they are business monsters. However to respect their job, it’s to sell their characters for as much as they can pinch us for, and their not holding a gun to my head to make me go or increasing taxes to pay for the construction. So, basically, I actually want the theme park…it looks like it could be quite fantastic. Additionally JKR sold some character rights, but she still retains full control over how they are used, for what purpose, etc, etc…that’s why JKR sits in meetings with the Producers/Screenwriters/Directors, because she has the authority of a producer if she wants something added it’s added, removed from script it’ll be done…Kreacher with OoTP is an example. To sell all her rights would have been foolish, as WB could have done whatever they wanted to with the name Harry Potter. WB is also acting, by contract, as her legal protection. Just as JKR said in the stand some books were approved by “her” people, but she never read the book, that’s because they act on her behalf, she’s entrusted them with her legal affairs regarding Harry Potter. JKR is named within the lawsuit, because she still has rights to Harry Potter. If any of this doesn’t make sense let me know, because I made my boyfriend repeat it multiple times when all this started so I understood what all of it meant…he can back it up with resources, but I trusted him to tell me, so I don’t know them off the top of my head. So in answer to your question about WB restricting fansites, no, they have no legal barring whatsoever; JKR could have if had chosen to originally. That’s the issue is what was once allowed on-line allowed for distribution for profit, the lexicon website.
Moreover, JKR was making a statement on the first day of trial how distraught she was over the Lexicon, because the lawyers had brought up that they were once friendly. JKR stated that she has had difficulty writing because of this tension and she didn’t want to force the material, she stated something in regards to inhibiting her creative mind. JKR didn’t turn to the judge and say if he wins then I’m not writing my “scottish book.” Don’t worry, she has lots of information saved up, I’m sure sooner or later we will see something. And it’s not if there’s room for both of the books, it’s if one of the books is profitting off of the work another, and what has to be proven in court is that SVA/RDR knew of the planned companion book and whether or not a planned companion book is sufficient enough to meet the fair use criteria. JKR’s not just protecting herself she’s protecting all creative writers from such infringements of use, and protecting the fans from purchasing something that ought to have remained free. Hope that helps, if it needs clarifying let me know, as I’m rambling.
In all honesty, even if the Lexicon book is allowed and published I will make a movement within my school and bookstores to ensure that they don’t have it available, and I will never ever buy it. It not only ripped off JKR, it would rip off the fans that helped make it.
Jealousy. That is all that is needed to lash out on Melissa. The trial is not about any other fan but mister VanderArk himself. And the fact that he has made himself unpopular with this trial, has nothing to do with Melissa or anyone from TLC.
@Ginny :
Thank you for your kind explanation. . I understand Mrs Rowling wants to protect her creation, to me that is a normal reaction. By trying to read the HP books, I was forced to learn english, so I am gratefull to Mrs Rowling and I thank her for it. But I also thank the HPLexicon, because due to the Lexicon I had better understanding of the HP world created by Mrs Rowling. You should know that a lot of the typical atmosphere Mrs Rowling created in her books is lost in the dutch translated books, as not only the story is translated but also most of the names of persons, places, spells and so on. The Lexicon is just a dictionnary, due to the explanation given for the different names , I understood better the atmosphere Mrs Rowling wanted to create, off course every word explained , is a word belonging to the HPworld, and maybe it is not useful to you, native english speaking HPfans, but it is to others and to my knowledge it is the only in his kind at the moment. That is why I do not understand why Mrs Rowling is so against the Lexibook . People , here at the site are talking about a simple “cut and paste” , but I have to say, it is really more than that. And off course, it is not 100% accurate, but there are also mistakes in the original HP book. I also think it is not possible to write a HP dictionnary without quoting the original . Anyway, I find this lawsuit a very sad thing to have happened, what ever the judge may decide, there will be no winner, people who used to share the same passion are now calling each other names. And why do have the feeling that we own this situation to WB?? Why do I have the feeling WB dragged Mrs Rowling on a path she did not want to go ??
The Harry Potter Lexicon was the first Harry Potter website I ever discovered and yet, I’ve never seen Steve as this important part of the fandom. I would only attribute the quasi-celebrity status to certain staff of Mugglenet and Leaky.
Was I under a rock or something?
I’ll preface my post by saying I know nothing about the finer points of law – and also, though I’ve been following the case from the beginning on Leaky and have read a lot of the comments, I haven’t read them all – so I may end up repeating what someone else said, and if so, I apologize.
It seems to me that once a book does not give commentary or analysis, it is no longer a book “about” Harry Potter, but as an encyclopedia or lexicon, it is a book that would “represent” Harry Potter. So, as something that would represent the Harry Potter series, having had to use so many direct quotes, it seems like it should fall into some new category – not just be argued over whether it falls into fair use, because without the original content, it doesn’t seem to fit that category.
Has anyone brought up that, other than books, all Harry Potter merchandise has to be licensed? So when something, even a book – so long as it does not give a significant amount of commentary or analysis, wishes to represent Harry Potter and be marketed to the public, shouldn’t it be subject to licensing like any other product?
I guess that’s what I don’t quite understand… why people can still argue that the lexicon book in its current form can be fair use – when so much of its content is made up of direct quotes. I can see how it could be used as a reference, but that alone doesn’t seem to make it eligible to be published without permission from the copyright holders, when there is not a significant amount of new material provided by SVA. The book is not “about” Harry Potter – it “is” Harry Potter as it is material straight from the original books. So, though there could be worth in the Lexicon book, it seems like something that needs to be licensed in order to be sold.
Just my thoughts – not taking much in the way of law into it.
I too used the lexicon periodically to remind myself about a tidbit here or there. Unfortunately, after finding a few inaccuracies I decided I was better served finding it on my own. As a librarian SVA is mildly adequate. He alphabetizes and categorizes fairly well. He needs to do a little more study into ALA (American Library Association) standards in re: attribution.
As to Mr. Wu: He should do a little more research in Bullfinch. SVA is more Narcissus than Arachne. He made the mistake of falling in love with his own reflection. Unfortunately, he has no Echo to pine for him.
Mr. Wu should also have done a little more research on the subject of Melissa’s book. He would have clearly seen that there is no comparison between the two. He should also have listened to the Pottercast more closely…he too could use a lesson in attribution. But perhaps that was not the purpose of his article?
Some people seem to be forgetting that this case is first and foremost a copyright case. As such, shouting slogans like ,,traitor” ,,betrayer” and ,,he/she is not a real fan” doesn’t really matter. What matters is what is legal and what is not, and what the judge will decide.
Personal opinion: The Lexicon is a very useful site, I’ve used it many times before and will do so in the future. Frankly I don’t give a damn whether it’s run by SVA, Jo or Frankeinstein as long as it remains reliable. It is (mostly) true that the Lexicon doesn’t have any creative/original ideas in it. But the sheer amount of time and effort spent on developing the site, so it would encompass the HP world, should be expected.
I don’t agree with Jo’s statement that SVA is stealing her life’s work. Everyone knows what the Lexicon book would be about and no one is going to attribute it to Jo. Jo won’t loose any money on this, in my opinion, because no one is going to refrain from buying her lexicon once they’ve bought SVA’s.
Another thought: until now Jo was pretty quiet about copyright problems- fanfic, sites, other books. Suddenly she seems to be very worried, given a favourable verdict for her I can only wonder what the next target will be… Leaky? Mugglenet? FanFiction.net? I don’t believe popular protest would worry WB at all.
SVA’s comments about Melissa were rude and false, no respect for this. But some comments that fans are making about SVA are equally rude. People shouldn’t get so excited about something even though they are ,,real HP fans”. If Melissa is as intelligent as she seems to be she wont get angry over something like this.
Lastly: the HP community in the past years has been an island of serenity so to speak. Now it is replaced by an angry mob. Is any debate worth this?
@kael123
Jo is upset because, in theory, if the lexibook went unchallenged it is not outside the realm of possibility that when the Scottish book is published SVA could SUE HER for copyright infringement. The librarians I work with find this concept quite intriguing.
I am simultaneously eagerly anticipating and totally dreading the judge’s decision on this suit. Given that the one thing everyone can agree on is that the law is murky, I feel there is a huge chance the judge is going to in essence create new law somehow to support his decision. And even then, the judge said reversals are so common that no matter what he thinks, an appeals court may think the exact opposite.
So if the judge winds up deciding for RDR, all the fair use people will be celebrating, and then what? A year later an appeals court reverses the decision and all the copyright people are celebrating. I side with JKR, but I think the Lexicon would be okay with stringent quotation and citation as well as some analytical essays thrown in. This would in my opinion make the Lexicon more like the Cliffs Notes that everyone keeps comparing it to.
In truth, I am intentionally removing myself further and further from any emotional investment in the decision because I know it is such a coin flip and likely to be reversed.
sva just needs a girlfriend and a life… i mean we all like harry potter, but i think he’s kind of lost touch with reality here…
Ok, if Steve really is a Harry Potter fan than he wouldn’t have attacked Melissa in the newspaper. And another thing, Melissa’s book is a commentary on the series as a whole and Steve’s book is just using all of Jk Rowling’s work. Melissa, like Athena said, we’re all here for you.
@iamminerva
Just my two cents about the Lexicon website: Because I’m a Potter fan who loves to hash over the details of the books with my sister (and online), I’ve found the Lexicon website to be an awesome resource. It’s not meant to be read like a novel: it’s a reference tool. You use it when you want to remember what Fleur’s parents’ names are, or whether or not we know that Stan Shunpike went to Hogwarts, or how old Viktor Krum is, or how to pronounce “Pius Thicknesse,” or whatever. So, I think the website is really useful, and impressively detailed. But if you’re not the kind of fan who often comes up with questions like that, then it probably won’t do too much for you. (The proposed book is another matter entirely, because not everything on the website made it into the book.)